5 ms·

True - agreed. Now we need to get rid of Israel's nuclear weapons.

YZF 1y ago
Let's get rid of all nuclear weapons. Why are we picking on Israel here? Unlike the US Israel has never used theirs (or admitted they actually have them). Russia has openly threatened the west with nuclear attack.
- arandomusername 1y ago
  Because Israel is the only nation in that region that has nuclear weapons, and the main reason why Iran wants to have nuclear weapons.
  - YZF 1y ago
    It's not really the reason Iran wants to have nuclear weapons though. Iran wants to have nuclear weapons to destroy Israel but more generally to be able to act with impunity. Israel has nothing against Iran. Before the Islamic revolution there were warm relations between the countries and the people. They are pretty distant geographically and until now have never fought a direct war. Iran has been actively attacking Israel via proxies for decades now and openly claims it wants to destroy it. Israel, at least to date, has shown that it can be trusted to use nuclear weapons as a pure deterrent. I'd rather live in a world without nuclear weapons but I'm a lot more worried about Russia and Pakistan (e.g.). By the way, we've seen what value security guarantees have to countries willing to give up nuclear deterrence in Ukraine. Not worth anything.
    - arandomusername 1y ago
      > Iran wants to have nuclear weapons to destroy Israel That's often spread by Jewish media, but I see no evidance for this. Iran's supreme leader has issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons. > Israel has nothing against Iran Just like Israel has nothing against Palestinians? > Israel, at least to date, has shown that it can be trusted to use nuclear weapons as a pure deterrent. A genocidal state cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons.
      - YZF 1y ago
        Israel and the Palestinians have a history of violence from Israel's first day as a country. Israel and Iran not really. More recently Israel has been attacked by Palestinians on Oct 7th. Iran was involved in training Hamas: https://ecfr.eu/article/iran-hamas-and-islamic-jihad-a-marriage-of-convenience/ https://ecfr.eu/article/iran-hamas-and-islamic-jihad-a-marri... "The Hamas-led attacks against Israel on 7 October reflected their own independent calculations. Although they could not have happened without the provision of long-term Iranian support, the attacks likely came as an unwelcome surprise for Tehran, which over the last two months has avoided giving Palestinian groups full-throated support. Whether Hamas and PIJ remain tightly aligned with Iran, however, will depend on the outcome of the war in Gaza and wider dynamics in the Middle East’s fluctuating geopolitics." Israel has really no history of any hostility towards Iran that predates their proxy wars on Israel. There is absolutely no rational reason or excuse for Iran to be attacking Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_proxy_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_proxy_conf... https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/10/09/iran-support-hamas-training-weapons-israel/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/10/09/... > A genocidal state cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons. Exactly.
        arandomusername 1y ago
        Israel has been oppressing Palestinians long before Oct 7th. Israel was involved in supporting ISIS. That's why ISIS never attacked Israel (except that one time accidentally which they apologized for! How crazy is that?) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-israel-defence-force-apology-attack-unit-golan-heights-defense-minister-moshe-ya-alon-a7700616.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-is... Israel also supported rebel groups in Syria https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-acknowledges-long-claimed-weapons-supply-to-syrian-rebels/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-acknowledges-long-cl... > Israel has really no history of any hostility towards Iran that predates their proxy wars on Israel. There is absolutely no rational reason or excuse for Iran to be attacking Israel. Israel has a history of hostility towards multiple neighbouring states. US has invaded Iraq for Israel. Iran does not want to be next. > Exactly. So you agree Israel should not be allowed nuclear weapons
    - oa335 1y ago
      > Iran has been actively attacking Israel via proxies for decades I think this framing is incorrect. It’s more like “Iran has helped these organizations fight Israel”. It’s fairly obvious that Hamas and Hezbollah are not proxies - they arose not because of Irani funding but as a reaction to Israeli actions.
      - throwawaythekey 1y ago
        Or at least counterbalance it with "America arms Israel to attack Lebannon and Palestine"
  - have-a-break 1y ago
    And Israel is the only country actively fighting it’s neighbor.
    - oa335 1y ago
      Neighbors. Palestine Syria Lebanon Yemen And Iran Have all been bombed repeatedly by Israel
      - YZF 1y ago
        Israel wasn't really at war with either Lebanon or Yemen or with the Palestinians. It was with Hezbollah and the Houthis and Hamas. All attacked Israel with no provocation before Israel retaliated. Syria is a different story. Israel did bomb military assets in Syria once the Assad regime fell/fled out of concerns they would fall into the hands of Jihadists. It also took territory to expand the zone it controls in case said Jihadists have intentions of proceeding into Israel. It took advantage of a vacuum in an uncertain security situation. During Assad's reign it did not bomb Syria since the 1973 war (where Syria attacked Israel with no provocation, that was Assad the father fwiw).
        oa335 1y ago
        Sure, by that token the US wasn’t really at war with Germany or Vietnam, it was at war with the Nazis and the Viet Cong. It’s a meaningless distinction to anyone actually affected by the wars. Additionally, Israel bombed Damascus during Assad’s reign. Here’s one recent example (bombing an embassy building): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_airstrike_on_the_Iranian_consulate_in_Damascus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_airstrike_on_the_Ira... > no provocation There’s a long history of violence in that region. To say that either side was “unprovoked” is a bit rich. E.g https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Gaza%E2%80%93Israel_clashes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Gaza%E2%80%93Israel_cla...
flyinglizard 1y ago
How Israel is supposed to guarantee its existence without nukes? Or is this the idea here?
- clipsy 1y ago
  How is Iran supposed to "guarantee its existence" without nukes? Or any other country?
  - TulliusCicero 1y ago
    I mean, other neighboring countries close to Israel have largely made peace with the country, and they have no nukes. Iran stands out in terms of constantly funding proxies to attack it.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- arandomusername 1y ago
  Replace Israel with Iran and your question remains the same. Iran doesn't want to end up like Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya.
  - kelnos 1y ago
    Iran seemed like they were doing fine in the existence department, no? I have a lot of disagreement (to put it mildly) with Israel, but I think they'd be fine letting Iran be if they'd stop funding Hezbollah and the Houthis, and quieted down with the "Israel must be destroyed" rhetoric. (And before the argument changes subject, I think Iran [and others] are justified in being angry with Israel about what they're doing in Gaza.)
    - arandomusername 1y ago
      Netanyahu has consistently said he wanted a regime change in Iran, alongside Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan. Iran does not want to end up like the other countries.

YZF 1y ago

Let's get rid of all nuclear weapons. Why are we picking on Israel here? Unlike the US Israel has never used theirs (or admitted they actually have them). Russia has openly threatened the west with nuclear attack.

arandomusername 1y ago
Because Israel is the only nation in that region that has nuclear weapons, and the main reason why Iran wants to have nuclear weapons.
- YZF 1y ago
  It's not really the reason Iran wants to have nuclear weapons though. Iran wants to have nuclear weapons to destroy Israel but more generally to be able to act with impunity. Israel has nothing against Iran. Before the Islamic revolution there were warm relations between the countries and the people. They are pretty distant geographically and until now have never fought a direct war. Iran has been actively attacking Israel via proxies for decades now and openly claims it wants to destroy it. Israel, at least to date, has shown that it can be trusted to use nuclear weapons as a pure deterrent. I'd rather live in a world without nuclear weapons but I'm a lot more worried about Russia and Pakistan (e.g.). By the way, we've seen what value security guarantees have to countries willing to give up nuclear deterrence in Ukraine. Not worth anything.
  - arandomusername 1y ago
    > Iran wants to have nuclear weapons to destroy Israel That's often spread by Jewish media, but I see no evidance for this. Iran's supreme leader has issued a fatwa against nuclear weapons. > Israel has nothing against Iran Just like Israel has nothing against Palestinians? > Israel, at least to date, has shown that it can be trusted to use nuclear weapons as a pure deterrent. A genocidal state cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons.
    - YZF 1y ago
      Israel and the Palestinians have a history of violence from Israel's first day as a country. Israel and Iran not really. More recently Israel has been attacked by Palestinians on Oct 7th. Iran was involved in training Hamas: https://ecfr.eu/article/iran-hamas-and-islamic-jihad-a-marriage-of-convenience/ https://ecfr.eu/article/iran-hamas-and-islamic-jihad-a-marri... "The Hamas-led attacks against Israel on 7 October reflected their own independent calculations. Although they could not have happened without the provision of long-term Iranian support, the attacks likely came as an unwelcome surprise for Tehran, which over the last two months has avoided giving Palestinian groups full-throated support. Whether Hamas and PIJ remain tightly aligned with Iran, however, will depend on the outcome of the war in Gaza and wider dynamics in the Middle East’s fluctuating geopolitics." Israel has really no history of any hostility towards Iran that predates their proxy wars on Israel. There is absolutely no rational reason or excuse for Iran to be attacking Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_proxy_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_proxy_conf... https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/10/09/iran-support-hamas-training-weapons-israel/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/10/09/... > A genocidal state cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons. Exactly.
      - arandomusername 1y ago
        Israel has been oppressing Palestinians long before Oct 7th. Israel was involved in supporting ISIS. That's why ISIS never attacked Israel (except that one time accidentally which they apologized for! How crazy is that?) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-israel-defence-force-apology-attack-unit-golan-heights-defense-minister-moshe-ya-alon-a7700616.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-is... Israel also supported rebel groups in Syria https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-acknowledges-long-claimed-weapons-supply-to-syrian-rebels/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-acknowledges-long-cl... > Israel has really no history of any hostility towards Iran that predates their proxy wars on Israel. There is absolutely no rational reason or excuse for Iran to be attacking Israel. Israel has a history of hostility towards multiple neighbouring states. US has invaded Iraq for Israel. Iran does not want to be next. > Exactly. So you agree Israel should not be allowed nuclear weapons
  - oa335 1y ago
    > Iran has been actively attacking Israel via proxies for decades I think this framing is incorrect. It’s more like “Iran has helped these organizations fight Israel”. It’s fairly obvious that Hamas and Hezbollah are not proxies - they arose not because of Irani funding but as a reaction to Israeli actions.
    - throwawaythekey 1y ago
      Or at least counterbalance it with "America arms Israel to attack Lebannon and Palestine"
- have-a-break 1y ago
  And Israel is the only country actively fighting it’s neighbor.
  - oa335 1y ago
    Neighbors. Palestine Syria Lebanon Yemen And Iran Have all been bombed repeatedly by Israel
    - YZF 1y ago
      Israel wasn't really at war with either Lebanon or Yemen or with the Palestinians. It was with Hezbollah and the Houthis and Hamas. All attacked Israel with no provocation before Israel retaliated. Syria is a different story. Israel did bomb military assets in Syria once the Assad regime fell/fled out of concerns they would fall into the hands of Jihadists. It also took territory to expand the zone it controls in case said Jihadists have intentions of proceeding into Israel. It took advantage of a vacuum in an uncertain security situation. During Assad's reign it did not bomb Syria since the 1973 war (where Syria attacked Israel with no provocation, that was Assad the father fwiw).
      - oa335 1y ago
        Sure, by that token the US wasn’t really at war with Germany or Vietnam, it was at war with the Nazis and the Viet Cong. It’s a meaningless distinction to anyone actually affected by the wars. Additionally, Israel bombed Damascus during Assad’s reign. Here’s one recent example (bombing an embassy building): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_airstrike_on_the_Iranian_consulate_in_Damascus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_airstrike_on_the_Ira... > no provocation There’s a long history of violence in that region. To say that either side was “unprovoked” is a bit rich. E.g https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Gaza%E2%80%93Israel_clashes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Gaza%E2%80%93Israel_cla...

flyinglizard 1y ago

How Israel is supposed to guarantee its existence without nukes? Or is this the idea here?

clipsy 1y ago
How is Iran supposed to "guarantee its existence" without nukes? Or any other country?
- TulliusCicero 1y ago
  I mean, other neighboring countries close to Israel have largely made peace with the country, and they have no nukes. Iran stands out in terms of constantly funding proxies to attack it.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
arandomusername 1y ago
Replace Israel with Iran and your question remains the same. Iran doesn't want to end up like Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya.
- kelnos 1y ago
  Iran seemed like they were doing fine in the existence department, no? I have a lot of disagreement (to put it mildly) with Israel, but I think they'd be fine letting Iran be if they'd stop funding Hezbollah and the Houthis, and quieted down with the "Israel must be destroyed" rhetoric. (And before the argument changes subject, I think Iran [and others] are justified in being angry with Israel about what they're doing in Gaza.)
  - arandomusername 1y ago
    Netanyahu has consistently said he wanted a regime change in Iran, alongside Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan. Iran does not want to end up like the other countries.