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Hear, Hear. We are seriously missing out over here in the US and continuing to be protectionist over the big 3 automakers is not going to improve our climate si

Hear, Hear. We are seriously missing out over here in the US and continuing to be protectionist over the big 3 automakers is not going to improve our climate situation. I consistently hear 2 main arguments against electric vehicles in the US. Range, and cost. BYD & China is solving both. Range is important because we lack charging infrastructure still, and anyone who rents at an apartment complex, you are screwed and have to rely on public charging stations. Big batteries are important for these folks. People also still have range anxiety, so when a fuel efficient gas car will get ~400+ miles per full tank, only having more expensive cars with a ~250 mile range is a non starter for a lot of people in the US. Cost is self explanatory. One of the better electric cars sold in the US, the Ioniq 6 STARTS at $38k, which is already more than a significant chunk of the population can afford - you're looking at close to an $800/month payment at current rates for entry level. BYD could sell in the US at around $20,000.

linotype 1y ago
Now do Germany.
rconti 1y ago
Hopefully this will allow cheaper cars to get ~400mi of range but I doubt we'll ever see much more in mainstream cars. Batteries are simply too expensive and too heavy. Fuel tanks are cheap to build, but we still see no gasoline passenger cars with large tanks. The manufacturers sort of standardize around a "normal" capacity, and just want the one option to design, manufacture, crash test, etc.
toomuchtodo 1y ago
Not to say EV charging has been solved, it is still very much in progress, but 64% of Americans live within 2 miles of a public charging station. We should continue to use policy to encourage "EV ready" infra in residential and apartment settings, places of business, commercial/retail, government, etc, but lots of folks can be served today. The vast majority US housing stock is single family homes (attached and detached combined), and those can, in most cases, be upgraded to support a dedicated circuit for charging. And, to your point, you'll also want to mandate new apartment building build outs are EV charging ready for their tenants. https://www.pewresearch.org/data-labs/2024/05/23/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-in-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/data-labs/2024/05/23/electric-ve... Key takeaways from the above: > The number of EV charging stations has more than doubled since 2020. In December 2020, the Department of Energy reported that there were nearly 29,000 public charging stations nationwide. By February 2024, that number had increased to more than 61,000 stations. Over 95% of the American public now lives in a county that has at least one public EV charging station. > EV charging stations are most accessible to residents of urban areas: 60% of urban residents live less than a mile from the nearest public EV charger, compared with 41% of those in the suburbs and just 17% of rural Americans. Maps: https://supercharge.info/map https://supercharge.info/map | https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/ | https://afdc.energy.gov/stations#/find/nearest?country=US&fuel=ELEC https://afdc.energy.gov/stations#/find/nearest?country=US&fu...
- oivey 1y ago
  2 miles is an awfully long way, and 36% of Americans are even further away. That’s 4 miles round trip. Presumably many of those charging stations aren’t that big and disallow you leaving your car overnight. The rest of the numbers are similarly bad.
  - anakaine 1y ago
    Some of the new 1000v infrastructure has 10-80% charging occuring in 5 minutes. These arguments are kind of like horse and cart owners stating that gasoline powered vehicles will.need to be able to get fuel and that's impractical. Its infrastructure and innovation that is still being built out, the that build out is now 10-12 years along for most first world nations.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    Doesn’t appear to be a problem for EV sales. Is your closest gas station 2 miles away? https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q4-2024-ev-sales/ https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q4-2024-ev-sales/ https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2025/trends-in-electric-car-markets-2 https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2025/trends-in...
    - thedrbrian 1y ago
      >is your closest gas station 2 miles away? No but it only takes 3 minutes to dump 45 litres of fuel into my car and that lasts about 3 weeks of driving.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - toomuchtodo 1y ago
        Almost there. https://insideevs.com/news/758625/byd-megawatt-charging-demo-china/ https://insideevs.com/news/758625/byd-megawatt-charging-demo...
      - 1y ago
devilbunny 1y ago
> ~400+ miles per full tank My car gets ~500 miles/800 km per tank. My wife's car, which has a more efficient engine and transmission and is also smaller, but with the same huge tank, gets ~600 miles/960 km per tank. I will have to stop for a bathroom somewhere along a route that long, but only once or twice. I used to have to stop three times for a ~900 mile/1500 km trip that I did a few times. This is a problem with EV proponents who try to argue that "you'll stop every couple of hours for half an hour or so anyway, so charging isn't an issue". No, I won't. I'll drive 1000 miles with less than 45 minutes of downtime on the whole trip. I don't stop every two hours. Maybe 15 minutes every 4 hours, of which 10 is fueling and going to the bathroom and 5 is getting off and back on the highway. That's not a slam against EV's, but let's acknowledge their weak points honestly.
- schmookeeg 1y ago
  I am 100% road warrior like you describe. I'll do a coast-to-coast in 29ish hours of driving. I recently moved to an EV for my road-tripper vehicle. Yes, I need to stop and recharge every 4-5 hours for 20-40mn. I find that I like it. A stretch, a coffee, snacks and replenishment. My favorite chargers are at a supermarket and a cafe' nearby. I agree the pro-EV types try to whitewash this a lot, and I agree it is dishonest. ...but I find that I am okay with the cross-country EV reality anyway. $0.02
  - devilbunny 1y ago
    Thank you. Simply acknowledging that it is a tradeoff instead of saying "but nobody does that" is refreshing.
- nerdsniper 1y ago
  Agreed but this car would solve that for just $25,000 if we didn’t have 100% tariffs on Chinese vehicles. 1,200 mile range, can charge 800 miles in 12 minutes.
- djrj477dhsnv 1y ago
  I'd like to see the stats on how many people regularly drive 500+ miles in a day. I'm American, so grew up in car culture, but I've never driven more than 200 - 300 miles in a day.
richardw 1y ago
Not only the climate situation, the economic situation. If the US protects the old tech for another decade it’ll never catch up. The US needs to move along the experience curve as fast as possible, build skills and volume and charging stations and suitable power grids and sources. I would much, much rather be China than the US in this fight right now.
tashoecraft 1y ago
Byd recently came out saying the hyper competitive landscape and low prices needs to end soon. The Chinese government is propping up a lot of their auto industry right now. So some protectionism is needed if you don’t want one of the last bits of manufacturing strength to disappear in the US.
- hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
  The hyper competitive landscape only exists within China. However, the much higher prices these companies are selling their cars outside of China are still much lower than the prices American cars are available at.
- Spivak 1y ago
  Genuine question, we have manufacturing strength in the US auto industry? Even among Americans, American cars aren't considered that good. There's a massive reliability premium you pay for Honda and Toyota. Even cars with 100k miles on them (frustratingly as a buyer) keep their value. And they're manufactured in the US, inasmuch as any car can be said to be manufactured in a single location. I've been searching around and I can't even find data about other countries importing our cars which to me would be the biggest signal of strength.
  - jdeibele 1y ago
    I own a Chevy Bolt EUV, made in the US. After 18 months driving it, I was happy enough with it that we leased a Chevy Equinox EV to replace my wife's gas car. The Equinox is made in Mexico, not the US but we've also been happy with it for 9 months so far. We've owned Hondas (Odyssey) and Toyotas (Camry, Prius, Corolla). They've been great. We also changed the oil whenever the car's display said to and did whatever other servicing our independent mechanic advised. I suspect that a lot of cars would also be reliable if they were maintained. Toyota is recalling 100,000 Tundra trucks because debris was left in the engine. https://www.haleytoyota.com/blog/the-2022-2023-toyota-tundra-engine-recall-and-what-it-means/ https://www.haleytoyota.com/blog/the-2022-2023-toyota-tundra... There's no perfect vehicle although I'd say EVs get a lot closer when you can refill at home and do basically no maintenance except tire rotations and cabin air filters.

linotype 1y ago

Now do Germany.

rconti 1y ago

Hopefully this will allow cheaper cars to get ~400mi of range but I doubt we'll ever see much more in mainstream cars. Batteries are simply too expensive and too heavy. Fuel tanks are cheap to build, but we still see no gasoline passenger cars with large tanks. The manufacturers sort of standardize around a "normal" capacity, and just want the one option to design, manufacture, crash test, etc.

toomuchtodo 1y ago

Not to say EV charging has been solved, it is still very much in progress, but 64% of Americans live within 2 miles of a public charging station. We should continue to use policy to encourage "EV ready" infra in residential and apartment settings, places of business, commercial/retail, government, etc, but lots of folks can be served today. The vast majority US housing stock is single family homes (attached and detached combined), and those can, in most cases, be upgraded to support a dedicated circuit for charging. And, to your point, you'll also want to mandate new apartment building build outs are EV charging ready for their tenants. https://www.pewresearch.org/data-labs/2024/05/23/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-in-the-u-s/ https://www.pewresearch.org/data-labs/2024/05/23/electric-ve... Key takeaways from the above: > The number of EV charging stations has more than doubled since 2020. In December 2020, the Department of Energy reported that there were nearly 29,000 public charging stations nationwide. By February 2024, that number had increased to more than 61,000 stations. Over 95% of the American public now lives in a county that has at least one public EV charging station. > EV charging stations are most accessible to residents of urban areas: 60% of urban residents live less than a mile from the nearest public EV charger, compared with 41% of those in the suburbs and just 17% of rural Americans. Maps: https://supercharge.info/map https://supercharge.info/map | https://www.plugshare.com/ https://www.plugshare.com/ | https://afdc.energy.gov/stations#/find/nearest?country=US&fuel=ELEC https://afdc.energy.gov/stations#/find/nearest?country=US&fu...

oivey 1y ago
2 miles is an awfully long way, and 36% of Americans are even further away. That’s 4 miles round trip. Presumably many of those charging stations aren’t that big and disallow you leaving your car overnight. The rest of the numbers are similarly bad.
- anakaine 1y ago
  Some of the new 1000v infrastructure has 10-80% charging occuring in 5 minutes. These arguments are kind of like horse and cart owners stating that gasoline powered vehicles will.need to be able to get fuel and that's impractical. Its infrastructure and innovation that is still being built out, the that build out is now 10-12 years along for most first world nations.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  Doesn’t appear to be a problem for EV sales. Is your closest gas station 2 miles away? https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q4-2024-ev-sales/ https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q4-2024-ev-sales/ https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2025/trends-in-electric-car-markets-2 https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2025/trends-in...
  - thedrbrian 1y ago
    >is your closest gas station 2 miles away? No but it only takes 3 minutes to dump 45 litres of fuel into my car and that lasts about 3 weeks of driving.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - toomuchtodo 1y ago
      Almost there. https://insideevs.com/news/758625/byd-megawatt-charging-demo-china/ https://insideevs.com/news/758625/byd-megawatt-charging-demo...
    - 1y ago

devilbunny 1y ago

> ~400+ miles per full tank My car gets ~500 miles/800 km per tank. My wife's car, which has a more efficient engine and transmission and is also smaller, but with the same huge tank, gets ~600 miles/960 km per tank. I will have to stop for a bathroom somewhere along a route that long, but only once or twice. I used to have to stop three times for a ~900 mile/1500 km trip that I did a few times. This is a problem with EV proponents who try to argue that "you'll stop every couple of hours for half an hour or so anyway, so charging isn't an issue". No, I won't. I'll drive 1000 miles with less than 45 minutes of downtime on the whole trip. I don't stop every two hours. Maybe 15 minutes every 4 hours, of which 10 is fueling and going to the bathroom and 5 is getting off and back on the highway. That's not a slam against EV's, but let's acknowledge their weak points honestly.

schmookeeg 1y ago
I am 100% road warrior like you describe. I'll do a coast-to-coast in 29ish hours of driving. I recently moved to an EV for my road-tripper vehicle. Yes, I need to stop and recharge every 4-5 hours for 20-40mn. I find that I like it. A stretch, a coffee, snacks and replenishment. My favorite chargers are at a supermarket and a cafe' nearby. I agree the pro-EV types try to whitewash this a lot, and I agree it is dishonest. ...but I find that I am okay with the cross-country EV reality anyway. $0.02
- devilbunny 1y ago
  Thank you. Simply acknowledging that it is a tradeoff instead of saying "but nobody does that" is refreshing.
nerdsniper 1y ago
Agreed but this car would solve that for just $25,000 if we didn’t have 100% tariffs on Chinese vehicles. 1,200 mile range, can charge 800 miles in 12 minutes.
djrj477dhsnv 1y ago
I'd like to see the stats on how many people regularly drive 500+ miles in a day. I'm American, so grew up in car culture, but I've never driven more than 200 - 300 miles in a day.

richardw 1y ago

Not only the climate situation, the economic situation. If the US protects the old tech for another decade it’ll never catch up. The US needs to move along the experience curve as fast as possible, build skills and volume and charging stations and suitable power grids and sources. I would much, much rather be China than the US in this fight right now.

tashoecraft 1y ago

Byd recently came out saying the hyper competitive landscape and low prices needs to end soon. The Chinese government is propping up a lot of their auto industry right now. So some protectionism is needed if you don’t want one of the last bits of manufacturing strength to disappear in the US.

hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
The hyper competitive landscape only exists within China. However, the much higher prices these companies are selling their cars outside of China are still much lower than the prices American cars are available at.
Spivak 1y ago
Genuine question, we have manufacturing strength in the US auto industry? Even among Americans, American cars aren't considered that good. There's a massive reliability premium you pay for Honda and Toyota. Even cars with 100k miles on them (frustratingly as a buyer) keep their value. And they're manufactured in the US, inasmuch as any car can be said to be manufactured in a single location. I've been searching around and I can't even find data about other countries importing our cars which to me would be the biggest signal of strength.
- jdeibele 1y ago
  I own a Chevy Bolt EUV, made in the US. After 18 months driving it, I was happy enough with it that we leased a Chevy Equinox EV to replace my wife's gas car. The Equinox is made in Mexico, not the US but we've also been happy with it for 9 months so far. We've owned Hondas (Odyssey) and Toyotas (Camry, Prius, Corolla). They've been great. We also changed the oil whenever the car's display said to and did whatever other servicing our independent mechanic advised. I suspect that a lot of cars would also be reliable if they were maintained. Toyota is recalling 100,000 Tundra trucks because debris was left in the engine. https://www.haleytoyota.com/blog/the-2022-2023-toyota-tundra-engine-recall-and-what-it-means/ https://www.haleytoyota.com/blog/the-2022-2023-toyota-tundra... There's no perfect vehicle although I'd say EVs get a lot closer when you can refill at home and do basically no maintenance except tire rotations and cabin air filters.