24 ms·

I can't make this stuff up

329 points by vibrunazo 14y ago

pedalpete 14y ago
I take back the comment here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4432744 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4432744, apparently this is exactly what Gigaom was referring to earlier today. I didn't think people would care, but apparently they do, don't understand, and Apple is paying the price. What would have happened had Samsung won??
prostoalex 14y ago
Costumers are people in charge of costumes, right? I can't imagine Apple would have that many.
- joelrunyon 14y ago
  Yes, can we get the titled edited?
dimitar 14y ago
A more probable headline - Apple consumers are wondering what they are paying for. Not really news, and I doubt its going to affect sales for now. Eventually they'll have to reinvent themselves if they want to stay cool, though. (Like Sony Walkman failed to do so as a brand)
- chipotle_coyote 14y ago
  I think a more probable headline is "Nothing happens." Except that won't be much of a story. Seriously, who's going to read "Samsung owes Apple $1B for patent infringement" and come away thinking that Apple is the bad guy? There are perfectly valid answers to that -- people concerned about the terrible state of patent law in the US, open source advocates, Hacker News readers -- but "average consumers" is not in that set of valid answers. In practice what this means is that by Christmas Samsung has a bunch of new phones out that don't violate Apple's trade dress patents and everyone who is not a nerd mostly forgets about this. Samsung may lose on appeal, they may not, but a year from now they'll still be the #1 phone maker in the world and they will have phones that are more distinctive than they have now. Or they will have phones that all look like Nokia's.
delllapssuck 14y ago
Beautiful. For Apple, it's all about controlling the minds of consumers. And controlling their access to information about the devices. For Samsung, it's less about that and more about plain old lack of interoperability: proprietary plugs, crappy Windows proprietary "install" software that was written hastily, and other little annoyances, stuff that will only work with Samsung. Like every other Asian manufacturer for as long as I can remember. (But at least companies like Samsung make SSD's and other components that can be used in any device. They keep companies like Apple afloat. Can Apple make its own components? Not as cost-effectively as Samsung.) The result is always the same: the consumer overpays for these cheap electronics and gets next to zero customer service. It's "take it or leave it". Showing a random Starbucks customer OSX in a virtual machine? Priceless. If they only knew what their iPhones, iPads, "iOS" and "OSX" were really made of. They might never care. But they do care about overpaying.
- taligent 14y ago
  Well this is odd. You do know that other companies beside Samsung make components and thinking that Samsung is keeping Apple afloat is pure and utter delusion.
  - delllapssuck 14y ago
    Yes, I know that. Samsung is one company among many. For example, in the first iPods (which kicked off this insane run Apple is having), they relied on Toshiba for the drives. I also know that thinking Apple would be able to stay afloat if they did not use manufacturers in Asia, such as Samsung, is "utter delusion". Is that what you're suggesting?
- MaysonL 14y ago
  But they do care about overpaying. But they keep coming back to Starbucks, and they buy subsidised cellphones, with two-year plans. And they think they care about overpaying.
  - delllapssuck 14y ago
lines 14y ago
The Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 costs $100 less than the latest iPad, and the same as the iPad 2. May I assume that "Samsung's iPad" in this case was actually a seven inch model, and a blatantly unfair comparison? edit: not to mention that the value of OS X is part of tw cost of MacBooks; running it in a VM on another OS is common, but unfair to portray to random people as a legitimate action as evidence that Apple is ripping peons off.
- xqyz 14y ago
  If it's non-technical people speaking about the differences between to technical things you can almost guarantee that they are trying to compare apples and oranges.
- objclxt 14y ago
  I think you are probably safe to assume that. Clearly the guy writing this is coming from one particular side of the argument. I really couldn't care one way or the other - I like my iPhone, but if a Galaxy is going to make you happier go buy it. However, don't discount the other side of the price argument. For some people price will be an important factor - however, as the iPod showed, it's not necessarily the main consideration for all consumers. I had a discussion about a year ago with someone from Samsung - "look", he said, "the problem is this: our phones cost basically the same to make as Apple's phones, but the average consumer thinks that the iPhone is worth more than a Galaxy". Samsung would probably quite like to charge as much for a Galaxy S3 as Apple do for an iPhone 4S. In some markets and territories this actually happens.
victorbstan 14y ago
This is a perfect example of judging a book by the cover. So these folks look at the device and think that the hardware is what makes it. Problem is, either you realize that it's about the software and you care what iOS and the Apple ecosystem gives you, or you're just an average Joe PC user who can't tell the difference between a good coffee and Starbucks, I mean between Windows and Mac. Regular people, with very little ability to discern the average from the good, the half finished from the polished, won't care. But maybe they do. Maybe once they experience a iPad or iPhone and then switch to Android, maybe they will realized there is a difference. I think this is what Apple is betting on. But then again, some wont. And some Samsung/Android fanatics are going to revel in these cases, just like the PC fanatics revel in talking about how amazing Windows is, and how much software they have access to. I still can't understand how these people think, and how they judge quality, I think for some people, mediocre is good enough. Obviously, I have my own particular way of judging things, and I wouldn't confuse an iPad with a Samsung device.
- xqyz 14y ago
  While I agree that mediocre can be "good enough" (e.g. I don't see any reason to buy high end headphones, when I am perfectly happy with ~150 Euro ones), I think this should always be a decision made consciously, not one born out of stupidity or ignorance. If those people don't require any of the things that make a "Samsung iPad" different than the Apple one, then fine, go save a few bucks, but don't chose it because you just assume that it's all the same.
  - pseudonym 14y ago
    If you don't consider 150 euro headphones to be high end, I'm scared to think where on the scale my $40 ones fall.
    - xqyz 14y ago
      Clearly you haven't been to audiophile forums. 150 is pretty much entry level for those kind of people.
chmars 14y ago
Google+ asks for my Google account password. Is there an alternate URL for this text?
- jacktoole1 14y ago
  http://pastebin.com/MZMfBrzd http://pastebin.com/MZMfBrzd
  - chmars 14y ago
    Thanks!
- barik 14y ago
  It's a bit annoying, and you shouldn't have to do this, but you can read it in privacy mode within your browser (in which case you won't be asked to login). I have a somewhat orthogonal issue that requires this. My Google Apps administrator has disabled Google+, so it asks me for a login when accessing Google+ pages despite the fact that I won't actually be able to read the article even after logging in. Fortunately, Google+ pages still show up rarely on HN.
  - chmars 14y ago
    Same problem with Google Apps here. Chrome for iOS to my rescue! :)
espeed 14y ago
What perfect PR for Samsung. It reminds me of the story where a company hired actors for a PR stunt where they used pre-launch devices in public to create buzz for the product. Who was that? EDIT: Maybe it was Samsung I'm thinking of. Evidently they have done stuff like that before (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110325/12360313633/samsung-hires-actors-to-pretend-to-be-happy-galaxy-tab-testers.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110325/12360313633/samsun...). Netflix has done this too (http://www.avclub.com/articles/netflix-apologizes-for-hiring-actors-to-pretend-to,45507/ http://www.avclub.com/articles/netflix-apologizes-for-hiring...).
enos_feedler 14y ago
Tim Cook specifically stated the reason they took action is in alignment with Apple's values, with innovation being the big one. Looking at the products Apple cranks out I don't think anyone can deny they value innovation (even if it means stealing along the way). They used the existing system in the best way they could in alignment with their core values, despite the fact it might confuse the customer, they lose sales etc, etc. Good for Apple.
saturdaysaint 14y ago
I am extremely skeptical that a lawsuit that few people are even aware of will have any effect on either company's brand image. A lot of Apple's products could be called "iconic" - people with little interest in technology differentiate between an iPhone 3GS and an iPhone 4. I'd be surprised if anyone could tell a Samsung from an HTC. A lawsuit isn't going to change that.
- GFischer 14y ago
  I agree that most people haven't heard much about the lawsuit, but saying "I'd be surprised if anyone could tell a Samsung from an HTC" surely only applies to your acquaintaces. Here in Uruguay they definitely will - and it is Samsung phones which sell the most, by far (we're very price sensitive which is a nicer word for poor :P ).
- nateabele 14y ago
  Well, enough people have heard about it that it's made the front page of a newspaper, so people are bound to talk about it. And indeed, Apple's products are iconic, but these are normal people we're talking about. I wouldn't put it past them.
  - objclxt 14y ago
    Totally anecdotal (but then again, so's the post we're all talking about here), but from talking to various non-technical people around the office a lot of people seem to think Samsung 'had it coming'. And let's not forget the jury found Samsung guilty, a jury that supposedly represents the common person. So while we're all aghast at what's going on here it could be quite likely that a lot of people have sympathy with Apple...rightly or wrongly.
stock_toaster 14y ago
Sounds like a case of assumed "difference regret", where people (esp those who don't know much about the products they are choosing from) think they didn't get the best deal.
tedunangst 14y ago
Here's what's going to happen. These people will buy a Samsung device. And they will hate it. And then they will learn to never buy anything but Apple. Apple has, for a short bump in near term revenue, earned themselves a lot of lifetime customers.
- xqyz 14y ago
  That's actually what kind of happened to me with MP3-Players. "Mhm, I could buy an iPod Nano for ~150 or this whatever-brand with more space for ~100. Two months later I got the iPod Classic, best decision ever."
  - tedunangst 14y ago
    heh, that's exactly my mp3 player story. I bought a small samsung device (dude, look, it plays ogg files! it must be the best!). Less than a month later I bought an ipod nano.
- phaus 14y ago
  Some people do hate Samsung products, and some people just hate Android in general. It may come as a shock to you, but in spite of this fact, there are actually tens of millions of people out there who prefer Android, Windows, and reasonably priced laptops. I bought a retina iPad because at the time I was in the market, it was the best tablet available. If I were going to get one today, it would be a close call between the iPad and the galaxy note 10.1. As far as phones go, Apple has neglected the trend towards larger screens. For a power user, the Iphone's tiny screen is unacceptable. I recently purchased a Galaxy Nexus, and it's easily the best phone I've ever used, at a better price than an off contract iPhone.
  - aaronbrethorst 14y ago
    What is a power user of a mobile phone, and what makes a 3.5" screen unacceptable? edit: Ah, I see. Reading a lot. I actually read all of Guns, Germs, and Steel on my iPhone 4S earlier this year, and probably do an hour or two of reading on it a day in total. It's not necessarily an ideal experience, but it certainly isn't terrible. I'm looking forward to the rumored 4" screen on the upcoming The New iPhone, but I think that 4.5" and 5" are both way too big. The impression I get is that most larger screens out there today don't pack in larger pixels, but instead just use bigger pixels. Ultimately, I'm more interested in the quality of the text than I am the total number of lines I can see at one time. For instance, before I got the retina screen-equipped iPad this year, I actually preferred reading on the iPhone to the iPad by a wide margin.
stesch 14y ago
Sure. They buy a Samsung notebook and try to install Mac OS X on it. That will be fun!
greenwalls 14y ago
A Pro-Google Android Zealot writes a story on Google Plus about people switching from Apple to Samsung due to a patent lawsuit and you all believe it? I guess there really is a sucker born every minute. Check Apple's earnings later to see who was right.
- joering2 14y ago
  In addition, I am at Starbucks once a day, at least. Never seen people so damn eager to talk with strangers, which makes this story even more.... "amazing"? :)
- MaysonL 14y ago
  And the first sentence in the post, bolded for emphasis: I can't make this stuff up
jdq 14y ago
Everything about the story reads like it was fabricated.
- kmfrk 14y ago
  The title implies that it was indeed deliberately fashioned by someone.
  - lurker14 14y ago
    How so?
    - kmfrk 14y ago
      The original title originally had the word "costumers" in it instead of "customers". :) I see that the title has been changed at least twice since the joke.
othermaciej 14y ago
I am skeptical that this is actually a true story and not a parable. The alleged regular people consumer statements do not ring true.
- evilduck 14y ago
  Also, he shows off a "OS/X" [sic] virtual machine to convince laymen that Apple's overcharging because you can run OSX in a VM. This is clearly a guy fabricating a story. Anyone who's ever virtualized OSX outside of VMWare Fusion will tell you this line is bullshit and would never offer that as a legitimate substitute for the real OSX desktop experience. Even legit OSX VMs on Fusion perform worse than their natively installed counterparts (GPU drivers just aren't very robust).
  - nnnnnnnn 14y ago
    That's not something noticeable during basic desktop use. I've used VMWare Fusion a fair amount and I was very impressed. I imagine someone non-technical would not be able to tell the difference.
    - shinratdr 14y ago
      There's also the small aspect of it being a complete hack and against the licensing terms of the software, making it essentially piracy.
      - evilduck 14y ago
        It's fragile hack, and it is against their EULA when the host OS is not OSX, but AFAIK|IANAL, violating a EULA has no broad legal precedent set in the US yet in limiting copyright terms against consumers, e.g. violating a EULA term alone does not make it piracy.
    - dthunt 14y ago
      This in reply to the 'essentially piracy' comment below, which for some reason I cannot reply to (too much nesting?) What's next? Am I stealing music if I put it in a CD player and it makes a 25ms buffer copy while I'm playing? Fair Use is an important principle. We can't structure our laws to work against Fair Use, or dig ourselves into the absolutely braindead position that exercising your fair use rights of software, music, etc - should be regarded as piracy. To do that is to be a total shithead.
anuraj 14y ago
FUD
bpatrianakos 14y ago
Even if this is a true story, it isn't the lawsuit that made people think this. What makes people think that Apple products and Samsung products are the same is the fact that Samsung intentionally ripped them off to get exactly that. Apple did not do this. Samsung did and the lawsuit was so they could stop it. If this story is true, which it kind of sounds like it isn't, then the only reason people are being vocal about it is because of the news. They're now comparing the two side by side and saying "hey, they look the same so they must be like the same thing". Up until about two months ago I was dirt poor (as in I only ate once a day, if that) and my experience with Apple products has been then you definitely get what you pay for in a good way which is why I have bought so many despite my door poor-ness. Samsung making their products look like Apple's was meant so people like me (minus the tech savviness) would buy them thinking they'll get the same thing. You really don't. But I digress. This post has it wrong. What he supposedly overheard in a Starbucks wasn't caused by the Apple v. Samsung ruling but was a direct result of what Samsung had been trying to do all along.
- Zak 14y ago
  Even if the appearance of say... an iPad and a Galaxy tablet are very similar, I don't think it's fair to call the Galaxy a ripoff. That basic design is just where the industry was headed. Case in point: the Crunchpad was announced nearly two years before the iPad and has a nearly identical design.
  - ricardobeat 14y ago
    The original version did not look like an iPad at all (http://www.slashgear.com/crunchpad-200-web-tablet-gets-second-prototype-video-1930939/ http://www.slashgear.com/crunchpad-200-web-tablet-gets-secon...), it got more similar on later revisions.
    - deno 14y ago
      That’s dishonest. It’s a development prototype. Here’s a good overview and timeline: http://www.nikcub.com/posts/crunchpad-proof-obviousness-in-ipad-design http://www.nikcub.com/posts/crunchpad-proof-obviousness-in-i...
psychotik 14y ago
Well, all this story tells me is that the folks who frequent Starbucks aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.
- dinkumthinkum 14y ago
  If the story is true, they're just regular users. That doesn't their dumb, just not smart about computing technology.
- nsmartt 14y ago
  That's not an unfair generalization or anything.
waterside81 14y ago
A few commenters here are not sure if this is real or not. I thought it was quite plainly put out as a tongue-in-cheek commentary in the form of an anecdote on the ridiculousness (according to the author) of this whole patent situation. "If Samsung copied Apple, why would we buy Apple? Just buy the cheap knock-off" is what he's angling at.
- dubya 14y ago
  "... Samsung's iPad is the same as Apple's iPad, and I paid how much for the Apple one?" pretty much clinches this as fiction. Samsung's tablets are not "a lot cheaper" than the iPad. Not to mention all of the Starbucks patrons chatting with strangers.
chris24 14y ago
This story reminds me of that recent Mac genius ad with the sketchy computer salesman.
adamgb 14y ago
Self-fulfilling prophecies are a bitch.
edanm 14y ago
So a while ago, I had this thought: "It's pretty obvious that the casual user will buy iPhones and not Galaxies. After all, Apple works very hard to make iPhones perfect for the casual user, and all of the goodiness that comes from having a more open phone is meaningless for the casual user". A little later, as more and more people I knew gravitated towards the Galaxies, I realized the flaw in this thinking - the average user doesn't know that the iPhone is geared towards him/her, and is a much better fit for someone who doesn't want to tinker with their phone. Only techies know this. The average user wants to buy a phone that they can put apps on. As far as they're concerned, the iPhone and the Galaxy is the same product, only with a vastly different price structure.
- gurkendoktor 14y ago
  Just anecdotal (in the same way as the OP), but I ran into plenty of young, non-tech people who are aware of the difference and still choose Android. For them, Android is the OS with slightly worse apps but you can get them all for free, without ever using a credit card. E.g. WhatsApp couldn't afford to be paid-only on Android because it just wouldn't work with the audience.
  - _djo_ 14y ago
    I also have anecdotal evidence of this, where Android is perceived as the better option because there are supposedly more free apps and paid apps are easily pirated. Even the local carrier's sales representatives try to move customers away from iPhones and iPads towards Android devices because 'most apps are free and they're just the same as the ones on the iPad/iPhone'.
- veemjeem 14y ago
  Lots of non-tech users have no clue about the difference between an ipad and a galaxy tablet -- the only thing they know to differentiate is the price. Samsung makes their stores identical to Apple (they even have an equivalent genius bar -- they're called smart tutors in the samsung store), so when the average joe walks into a Samsung store, they think they're just buying a cheaper Apple product.
- 14y ago
EternalFury 14y ago
Good one, nonsense.
logn 14y ago
Sweet ironic justice.
forgottenpaswrd 14y ago
This man is clearly lying. So awkward and artificial that is clearly fabricated, like a geek joke prepared and rationalized but void and dead of humor. Imagine a teenage that could not differentiate between and iPod and some other thing "that is the same". Yeah, because normal people know how to install a VM, do a grep and an ssh....but they could not differentiate from a computer witch battery last 3 hours instead of 8, or weights double, or is made in real aluminum(and not plastic with metallic paint) or it is actually cheaper than the competence. This man is wet dreaming.
- pjzedalis 14y ago
  I dunno. I mean I think it's all true minus the part about the customers talking to each other and then talking to him.
dakimov 14y ago
If you cannot tell the difference between an iPhone and a Samsung, you should better buy yourself a Huawei.
Z3UX 14y ago
I'm sorry for my honest comment but this just proves what some people over the world thinks: Americans are dumb! =X
- KirinDave 14y ago
  I hope you understand why you are going to be aggressively downmodded, and it's not because of any nationalism. It's because this sort of comment is beneath the basic standards of cordiality in any serious discussion, even in a forum as notoriously crass as this one. Not to mention it adds nothing to the discussion of substance, having even less impact than "Me too!" What's more, it's not even fair. Indeed, the entire point of this trial was for Apple to make a case that consumers are confused in America. So you can't really accept the verdict of this case and then say this is implausible or "Americans are stupid." If Apple is right, then Samsung has engaged in deliberate deception. If Samsung is right, then it's not unreasonable to ask if Apple actually has been overcharging people off on phones dictated by basic design principles.
  - Z3UX 14y ago
    What I can't understand is what sort of message the media over there is sending about the whole trial that gets people to think that their hardware is the "same"... Even non tech fellows understand "oranges and apples", in most situations! Maybe we're better educated on this subject on my region but most people understand this stuff. People that don't understand this, don't give a crap for the actual brand and just buy some Huawei or carrier branded phone/tablet.
Steko 14y ago
I'm mystified that an anecdote that's very likely fabricated and is filled with misinformation is one of the highest rated pieces here. I'd say people who upvote before they read are part of the problem but I'm more concerned that many people did read and still upvoted it.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
napierzaza 14y ago
Haaha, too bad this probably didn't happen, and was just there to prove a point that some blogger who apparently has all-Samsung products wants us to believe.
gtirloni 14y ago
What Apple has done is essentially throw all the hard work of its own marketing department out the window. Marketing works hard so consumers will pay more for what they perceive is a better product. Even if it's not. Now Apple has called attention to how similar Samsung products are and people ARE going to make this connection no matter what. Even if Apple gets an injunction, do you think customers will still be willing to pay that premium over Apple products? They will at least start questioning their choices. In this consumerist society we might as well see riots and protests so Apple lowers the prices or the govt cancels the injunctions.
morpher 14y ago
I find this (apparently fake) story interesting for the reaction that it created. I found it surprising (disturbing?) that anyone (even a fictional character) would equate losing a lawsuit for patent infringement with having an identical product. I was even for surprised reading through to comments on g+ to see how many were simply along the lines of "haha stoopid iPeons". As if they are dumb for having purchased an iProduct in the first place instead of the obviously identical but cheaper product from Samsung. Wat? I don't doubt the authors conjecture that some customers may have this odd reaction to the lawsuit, but why do so many people seem to think that it is a natural reaction to have?
AllenKids 14y ago
I think the author make this stuff up. Also after a few months it tricks me into G+ again, nope, still no value for me.
lutusp 14y ago
> Samsung's iPad is the same as Apple's iPad, and I paid how much for the Apple one? Honey, I told you they were a ripoff" Maybe now, but if Samsung has to pay a billion-dollar fine, the prices will be more comparable -- assuming that Samsung isn't also ordered to stop building machines so much like Apple's. The sense of the article is that the lawsuit outcome favors Samsung -- that Apple is outing Samsung's units as being similar to Apple's but less money. This only works if Samsung's business isn't crippled by fines and cease-and-desist orders.
keithpeter 14y ago
If we accept the message behind this apparent parable (Samsung tablets have higher visibility now because of the lawsuit) is this not a great opportunity for WinRT based tablets? Trusted brand, cheaper than iPad (I'm assuming for the WinRT ones) range of styles from different manufacturers, a (possibly limited) version of Office...
Tichy 14y ago
One more thing about the lawsuit: the battle startet long before it was taken to court, with all of Apple's ads suggesting that they invented stuff they did not really invent. And now a jury got to decide, that was of course also raised/brainwashed with Apple advertisements.
nachteilig 14y ago
Why do I have a strong feeling that this is anti-Apple blogspam? If people confuse Apple products with Samsung products, it's because Samsung wants that confusion to exist. Apple's innovations weren't "obvious" until Apple put them into their products. Please consider the criticism iPhone received for not having a keyboard or buttons back in 2007.
metatronscube 14y ago
Nope, I will now only ever consider Samsung capable of bad ripoffs and plagiarism.

329 points by vibrunazo 14y ago

I take back the comment here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4432744 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4432744, apparently this is exactly what Gigaom was referring to earlier today. I didn't think people would care, but apparently they do, don't understand, and Apple is paying the price. What would have happened had Samsung won??

prostoalex 14y ago

Costumers are people in charge of costumes, right? I can't imagine Apple would have that many.

joelrunyon 14y ago
Yes, can we get the titled edited?

dimitar 14y ago

A more probable headline - Apple consumers are wondering what they are paying for. Not really news, and I doubt its going to affect sales for now. Eventually they'll have to reinvent themselves if they want to stay cool, though. (Like Sony Walkman failed to do so as a brand)

chipotle_coyote 14y ago
I think a more probable headline is "Nothing happens." Except that won't be much of a story. Seriously, who's going to read "Samsung owes Apple $1B for patent infringement" and come away thinking that Apple is the bad guy? There are perfectly valid answers to that -- people concerned about the terrible state of patent law in the US, open source advocates, Hacker News readers -- but "average consumers" is not in that set of valid answers. In practice what this means is that by Christmas Samsung has a bunch of new phones out that don't violate Apple's trade dress patents and everyone who is not a nerd mostly forgets about this. Samsung may lose on appeal, they may not, but a year from now they'll still be the #1 phone maker in the world and they will have phones that are more distinctive than they have now. Or they will have phones that all look like Nokia's.

delllapssuck 14y ago

Beautiful. For Apple, it's all about controlling the minds of consumers. And controlling their access to information about the devices. For Samsung, it's less about that and more about plain old lack of interoperability: proprietary plugs, crappy Windows proprietary "install" software that was written hastily, and other little annoyances, stuff that will only work with Samsung. Like every other Asian manufacturer for as long as I can remember. (But at least companies like Samsung make SSD's and other components that can be used in any device. They keep companies like Apple afloat. Can Apple make its own components? Not as cost-effectively as Samsung.) The result is always the same: the consumer overpays for these cheap electronics and gets next to zero customer service. It's "take it or leave it". Showing a random Starbucks customer OSX in a virtual machine? Priceless. If they only knew what their iPhones, iPads, "iOS" and "OSX" were really made of. They might never care. But they do care about overpaying.

taligent 14y ago
Well this is odd. You do know that other companies beside Samsung make components and thinking that Samsung is keeping Apple afloat is pure and utter delusion.
- delllapssuck 14y ago
  Yes, I know that. Samsung is one company among many. For example, in the first iPods (which kicked off this insane run Apple is having), they relied on Toshiba for the drives. I also know that thinking Apple would be able to stay afloat if they did not use manufacturers in Asia, such as Samsung, is "utter delusion". Is that what you're suggesting?
MaysonL 14y ago
But they do care about overpaying. But they keep coming back to Starbucks, and they buy subsidised cellphones, with two-year plans. And they think they care about overpaying.
- delllapssuck 14y ago

lines 14y ago

The Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 10.1 costs $100 less than the latest iPad, and the same as the iPad 2. May I assume that "Samsung's iPad" in this case was actually a seven inch model, and a blatantly unfair comparison? edit: not to mention that the value of OS X is part of tw cost of MacBooks; running it in a VM on another OS is common, but unfair to portray to random people as a legitimate action as evidence that Apple is ripping peons off.

xqyz 14y ago
If it's non-technical people speaking about the differences between to technical things you can almost guarantee that they are trying to compare apples and oranges.
objclxt 14y ago
I think you are probably safe to assume that. Clearly the guy writing this is coming from one particular side of the argument. I really couldn't care one way or the other - I like my iPhone, but if a Galaxy is going to make you happier go buy it. However, don't discount the other side of the price argument. For some people price will be an important factor - however, as the iPod showed, it's not necessarily the main consideration for all consumers. I had a discussion about a year ago with someone from Samsung - "look", he said, "the problem is this: our phones cost basically the same to make as Apple's phones, but the average consumer thinks that the iPhone is worth more than a Galaxy". Samsung would probably quite like to charge as much for a Galaxy S3 as Apple do for an iPhone 4S. In some markets and territories this actually happens.

victorbstan 14y ago

This is a perfect example of judging a book by the cover. So these folks look at the device and think that the hardware is what makes it. Problem is, either you realize that it's about the software and you care what iOS and the Apple ecosystem gives you, or you're just an average Joe PC user who can't tell the difference between a good coffee and Starbucks, I mean between Windows and Mac. Regular people, with very little ability to discern the average from the good, the half finished from the polished, won't care. But maybe they do. Maybe once they experience a iPad or iPhone and then switch to Android, maybe they will realized there is a difference. I think this is what Apple is betting on. But then again, some wont. And some Samsung/Android fanatics are going to revel in these cases, just like the PC fanatics revel in talking about how amazing Windows is, and how much software they have access to. I still can't understand how these people think, and how they judge quality, I think for some people, mediocre is good enough. Obviously, I have my own particular way of judging things, and I wouldn't confuse an iPad with a Samsung device.

xqyz 14y ago
While I agree that mediocre can be "good enough" (e.g. I don't see any reason to buy high end headphones, when I am perfectly happy with ~150 Euro ones), I think this should always be a decision made consciously, not one born out of stupidity or ignorance. If those people don't require any of the things that make a "Samsung iPad" different than the Apple one, then fine, go save a few bucks, but don't chose it because you just assume that it's all the same.
- pseudonym 14y ago
  If you don't consider 150 euro headphones to be high end, I'm scared to think where on the scale my $40 ones fall.
  - xqyz 14y ago
    Clearly you haven't been to audiophile forums. 150 is pretty much entry level for those kind of people.

chmars 14y ago

Google+ asks for my Google account password. Is there an alternate URL for this text?

jacktoole1 14y ago
http://pastebin.com/MZMfBrzd http://pastebin.com/MZMfBrzd
- chmars 14y ago
  Thanks!
barik 14y ago
It's a bit annoying, and you shouldn't have to do this, but you can read it in privacy mode within your browser (in which case you won't be asked to login). I have a somewhat orthogonal issue that requires this. My Google Apps administrator has disabled Google+, so it asks me for a login when accessing Google+ pages despite the fact that I won't actually be able to read the article even after logging in. Fortunately, Google+ pages still show up rarely on HN.
- chmars 14y ago
  Same problem with Google Apps here. Chrome for iOS to my rescue! :)

espeed 14y ago

What perfect PR for Samsung. It reminds me of the story where a company hired actors for a PR stunt where they used pre-launch devices in public to create buzz for the product. Who was that? EDIT: Maybe it was Samsung I'm thinking of. Evidently they have done stuff like that before (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110325/12360313633/samsung-hires-actors-to-pretend-to-be-happy-galaxy-tab-testers.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110325/12360313633/samsun...). Netflix has done this too (http://www.avclub.com/articles/netflix-apologizes-for-hiring-actors-to-pretend-to,45507/ http://www.avclub.com/articles/netflix-apologizes-for-hiring...).

enos_feedler 14y ago

Tim Cook specifically stated the reason they took action is in alignment with Apple's values, with innovation being the big one. Looking at the products Apple cranks out I don't think anyone can deny they value innovation (even if it means stealing along the way). They used the existing system in the best way they could in alignment with their core values, despite the fact it might confuse the customer, they lose sales etc, etc. Good for Apple.

saturdaysaint 14y ago

I am extremely skeptical that a lawsuit that few people are even aware of will have any effect on either company's brand image. A lot of Apple's products could be called "iconic" - people with little interest in technology differentiate between an iPhone 3GS and an iPhone 4. I'd be surprised if anyone could tell a Samsung from an HTC. A lawsuit isn't going to change that.

GFischer 14y ago
I agree that most people haven't heard much about the lawsuit, but saying "I'd be surprised if anyone could tell a Samsung from an HTC" surely only applies to your acquaintaces. Here in Uruguay they definitely will - and it is Samsung phones which sell the most, by far (we're very price sensitive which is a nicer word for poor :P ).
nateabele 14y ago
Well, enough people have heard about it that it's made the front page of a newspaper, so people are bound to talk about it. And indeed, Apple's products are iconic, but these are normal people we're talking about. I wouldn't put it past them.
- objclxt 14y ago
  Totally anecdotal (but then again, so's the post we're all talking about here), but from talking to various non-technical people around the office a lot of people seem to think Samsung 'had it coming'. And let's not forget the jury found Samsung guilty, a jury that supposedly represents the common person. So while we're all aghast at what's going on here it could be quite likely that a lot of people have sympathy with Apple...rightly or wrongly.

stock_toaster 14y ago

Sounds like a case of assumed "difference regret", where people (esp those who don't know much about the products they are choosing from) think they didn't get the best deal.

tedunangst 14y ago

Here's what's going to happen. These people will buy a Samsung device. And they will hate it. And then they will learn to never buy anything but Apple. Apple has, for a short bump in near term revenue, earned themselves a lot of lifetime customers.

xqyz 14y ago
That's actually what kind of happened to me with MP3-Players. "Mhm, I could buy an iPod Nano for ~150 or this whatever-brand with more space for ~100. Two months later I got the iPod Classic, best decision ever."
- tedunangst 14y ago
  heh, that's exactly my mp3 player story. I bought a small samsung device (dude, look, it plays ogg files! it must be the best!). Less than a month later I bought an ipod nano.
phaus 14y ago
Some people do hate Samsung products, and some people just hate Android in general. It may come as a shock to you, but in spite of this fact, there are actually tens of millions of people out there who prefer Android, Windows, and reasonably priced laptops. I bought a retina iPad because at the time I was in the market, it was the best tablet available. If I were going to get one today, it would be a close call between the iPad and the galaxy note 10.1. As far as phones go, Apple has neglected the trend towards larger screens. For a power user, the Iphone's tiny screen is unacceptable. I recently purchased a Galaxy Nexus, and it's easily the best phone I've ever used, at a better price than an off contract iPhone.
- aaronbrethorst 14y ago
  What is a power user of a mobile phone, and what makes a 3.5" screen unacceptable? edit: Ah, I see. Reading a lot. I actually read all of Guns, Germs, and Steel on my iPhone 4S earlier this year, and probably do an hour or two of reading on it a day in total. It's not necessarily an ideal experience, but it certainly isn't terrible. I'm looking forward to the rumored 4" screen on the upcoming The New iPhone, but I think that 4.5" and 5" are both way too big. The impression I get is that most larger screens out there today don't pack in larger pixels, but instead just use bigger pixels. Ultimately, I'm more interested in the quality of the text than I am the total number of lines I can see at one time. For instance, before I got the retina screen-equipped iPad this year, I actually preferred reading on the iPhone to the iPad by a wide margin.

stesch 14y ago

Sure. They buy a Samsung notebook and try to install Mac OS X on it. That will be fun!

greenwalls 14y ago

A Pro-Google Android Zealot writes a story on Google Plus about people switching from Apple to Samsung due to a patent lawsuit and you all believe it? I guess there really is a sucker born every minute. Check Apple's earnings later to see who was right.

joering2 14y ago
In addition, I am at Starbucks once a day, at least. Never seen people so damn eager to talk with strangers, which makes this story even more.... "amazing"? :)
MaysonL 14y ago
And the first sentence in the post, bolded for emphasis: I can't make this stuff up

jdq 14y ago

Everything about the story reads like it was fabricated.

kmfrk 14y ago
The title implies that it was indeed deliberately fashioned by someone.
- lurker14 14y ago
  How so?
  - kmfrk 14y ago
    The original title originally had the word "costumers" in it instead of "customers". :) I see that the title has been changed at least twice since the joke.

othermaciej 14y ago

I am skeptical that this is actually a true story and not a parable. The alleged regular people consumer statements do not ring true.

evilduck 14y ago
Also, he shows off a "OS/X" [sic] virtual machine to convince laymen that Apple's overcharging because you can run OSX in a VM. This is clearly a guy fabricating a story. Anyone who's ever virtualized OSX outside of VMWare Fusion will tell you this line is bullshit and would never offer that as a legitimate substitute for the real OSX desktop experience. Even legit OSX VMs on Fusion perform worse than their natively installed counterparts (GPU drivers just aren't very robust).
- nnnnnnnn 14y ago
  That's not something noticeable during basic desktop use. I've used VMWare Fusion a fair amount and I was very impressed. I imagine someone non-technical would not be able to tell the difference.
  - shinratdr 14y ago
    There's also the small aspect of it being a complete hack and against the licensing terms of the software, making it essentially piracy.
    - evilduck 14y ago
      It's fragile hack, and it is against their EULA when the host OS is not OSX, but AFAIK|IANAL, violating a EULA has no broad legal precedent set in the US yet in limiting copyright terms against consumers, e.g. violating a EULA term alone does not make it piracy.
  - dthunt 14y ago
    This in reply to the 'essentially piracy' comment below, which for some reason I cannot reply to (too much nesting?) What's next? Am I stealing music if I put it in a CD player and it makes a 25ms buffer copy while I'm playing? Fair Use is an important principle. We can't structure our laws to work against Fair Use, or dig ourselves into the absolutely braindead position that exercising your fair use rights of software, music, etc - should be regarded as piracy. To do that is to be a total shithead.

anuraj 14y ago

FUD

bpatrianakos 14y ago

Even if this is a true story, it isn't the lawsuit that made people think this. What makes people think that Apple products and Samsung products are the same is the fact that Samsung intentionally ripped them off to get exactly that. Apple did not do this. Samsung did and the lawsuit was so they could stop it. If this story is true, which it kind of sounds like it isn't, then the only reason people are being vocal about it is because of the news. They're now comparing the two side by side and saying "hey, they look the same so they must be like the same thing". Up until about two months ago I was dirt poor (as in I only ate once a day, if that) and my experience with Apple products has been then you definitely get what you pay for in a good way which is why I have bought so many despite my door poor-ness. Samsung making their products look like Apple's was meant so people like me (minus the tech savviness) would buy them thinking they'll get the same thing. You really don't. But I digress. This post has it wrong. What he supposedly overheard in a Starbucks wasn't caused by the Apple v. Samsung ruling but was a direct result of what Samsung had been trying to do all along.

Zak 14y ago
Even if the appearance of say... an iPad and a Galaxy tablet are very similar, I don't think it's fair to call the Galaxy a ripoff. That basic design is just where the industry was headed. Case in point: the Crunchpad was announced nearly two years before the iPad and has a nearly identical design.
- ricardobeat 14y ago
  The original version did not look like an iPad at all (http://www.slashgear.com/crunchpad-200-web-tablet-gets-second-prototype-video-1930939/ http://www.slashgear.com/crunchpad-200-web-tablet-gets-secon...), it got more similar on later revisions.
  - deno 14y ago
    That’s dishonest. It’s a development prototype. Here’s a good overview and timeline: http://www.nikcub.com/posts/crunchpad-proof-obviousness-in-ipad-design http://www.nikcub.com/posts/crunchpad-proof-obviousness-in-i...

psychotik 14y ago

Well, all this story tells me is that the folks who frequent Starbucks aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

dinkumthinkum 14y ago
If the story is true, they're just regular users. That doesn't their dumb, just not smart about computing technology.
nsmartt 14y ago
That's not an unfair generalization or anything.

waterside81 14y ago

A few commenters here are not sure if this is real or not. I thought it was quite plainly put out as a tongue-in-cheek commentary in the form of an anecdote on the ridiculousness (according to the author) of this whole patent situation. "If Samsung copied Apple, why would we buy Apple? Just buy the cheap knock-off" is what he's angling at.

dubya 14y ago
"... Samsung's iPad is the same as Apple's iPad, and I paid how much for the Apple one?" pretty much clinches this as fiction. Samsung's tablets are not "a lot cheaper" than the iPad. Not to mention all of the Starbucks patrons chatting with strangers.

chris24 14y ago

This story reminds me of that recent Mac genius ad with the sketchy computer salesman.

adamgb 14y ago

Self-fulfilling prophecies are a bitch.

edanm 14y ago

So a while ago, I had this thought: "It's pretty obvious that the casual user will buy iPhones and not Galaxies. After all, Apple works very hard to make iPhones perfect for the casual user, and all of the goodiness that comes from having a more open phone is meaningless for the casual user". A little later, as more and more people I knew gravitated towards the Galaxies, I realized the flaw in this thinking - the average user doesn't know that the iPhone is geared towards him/her, and is a much better fit for someone who doesn't want to tinker with their phone. Only techies know this. The average user wants to buy a phone that they can put apps on. As far as they're concerned, the iPhone and the Galaxy is the same product, only with a vastly different price structure.

gurkendoktor 14y ago
Just anecdotal (in the same way as the OP), but I ran into plenty of young, non-tech people who are aware of the difference and still choose Android. For them, Android is the OS with slightly worse apps but you can get them all for free, without ever using a credit card. E.g. WhatsApp couldn't afford to be paid-only on Android because it just wouldn't work with the audience.
- _djo_ 14y ago
  I also have anecdotal evidence of this, where Android is perceived as the better option because there are supposedly more free apps and paid apps are easily pirated. Even the local carrier's sales representatives try to move customers away from iPhones and iPads towards Android devices because 'most apps are free and they're just the same as the ones on the iPad/iPhone'.
veemjeem 14y ago
Lots of non-tech users have no clue about the difference between an ipad and a galaxy tablet -- the only thing they know to differentiate is the price. Samsung makes their stores identical to Apple (they even have an equivalent genius bar -- they're called smart tutors in the samsung store), so when the average joe walks into a Samsung store, they think they're just buying a cheaper Apple product.
14y ago

EternalFury 14y ago

Good one, nonsense.

logn 14y ago

Sweet ironic justice.

forgottenpaswrd 14y ago

This man is clearly lying. So awkward and artificial that is clearly fabricated, like a geek joke prepared and rationalized but void and dead of humor. Imagine a teenage that could not differentiate between and iPod and some other thing "that is the same". Yeah, because normal people know how to install a VM, do a grep and an ssh....but they could not differentiate from a computer witch battery last 3 hours instead of 8, or weights double, or is made in real aluminum(and not plastic with metallic paint) or it is actually cheaper than the competence. This man is wet dreaming.

pjzedalis 14y ago
I dunno. I mean I think it's all true minus the part about the customers talking to each other and then talking to him.

dakimov 14y ago

If you cannot tell the difference between an iPhone and a Samsung, you should better buy yourself a Huawei.

Z3UX 14y ago

I'm sorry for my honest comment but this just proves what some people over the world thinks: Americans are dumb! =X

KirinDave 14y ago
I hope you understand why you are going to be aggressively downmodded, and it's not because of any nationalism. It's because this sort of comment is beneath the basic standards of cordiality in any serious discussion, even in a forum as notoriously crass as this one. Not to mention it adds nothing to the discussion of substance, having even less impact than "Me too!" What's more, it's not even fair. Indeed, the entire point of this trial was for Apple to make a case that consumers are confused in America. So you can't really accept the verdict of this case and then say this is implausible or "Americans are stupid." If Apple is right, then Samsung has engaged in deliberate deception. If Samsung is right, then it's not unreasonable to ask if Apple actually has been overcharging people off on phones dictated by basic design principles.
- Z3UX 14y ago
  What I can't understand is what sort of message the media over there is sending about the whole trial that gets people to think that their hardware is the "same"... Even non tech fellows understand "oranges and apples", in most situations! Maybe we're better educated on this subject on my region but most people understand this stuff. People that don't understand this, don't give a crap for the actual brand and just buy some Huawei or carrier branded phone/tablet.

Steko 14y ago

I'm mystified that an anecdote that's very likely fabricated and is filled with misinformation is one of the highest rated pieces here. I'd say people who upvote before they read are part of the problem but I'm more concerned that many people did read and still upvoted it.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

napierzaza 14y ago

Haaha, too bad this probably didn't happen, and was just there to prove a point that some blogger who apparently has all-Samsung products wants us to believe.

gtirloni 14y ago

What Apple has done is essentially throw all the hard work of its own marketing department out the window. Marketing works hard so consumers will pay more for what they perceive is a better product. Even if it's not. Now Apple has called attention to how similar Samsung products are and people ARE going to make this connection no matter what. Even if Apple gets an injunction, do you think customers will still be willing to pay that premium over Apple products? They will at least start questioning their choices. In this consumerist society we might as well see riots and protests so Apple lowers the prices or the govt cancels the injunctions.

morpher 14y ago

I find this (apparently fake) story interesting for the reaction that it created. I found it surprising (disturbing?) that anyone (even a fictional character) would equate losing a lawsuit for patent infringement with having an identical product. I was even for surprised reading through to comments on g+ to see how many were simply along the lines of "haha stoopid iPeons". As if they are dumb for having purchased an iProduct in the first place instead of the obviously identical but cheaper product from Samsung. Wat? I don't doubt the authors conjecture that some customers may have this odd reaction to the lawsuit, but why do so many people seem to think that it is a natural reaction to have?

AllenKids 14y ago

I think the author make this stuff up. Also after a few months it tricks me into G+ again, nope, still no value for me.

lutusp 14y ago

> Samsung's iPad is the same as Apple's iPad, and I paid how much for the Apple one? Honey, I told you they were a ripoff" Maybe now, but if Samsung has to pay a billion-dollar fine, the prices will be more comparable -- assuming that Samsung isn't also ordered to stop building machines so much like Apple's. The sense of the article is that the lawsuit outcome favors Samsung -- that Apple is outing Samsung's units as being similar to Apple's but less money. This only works if Samsung's business isn't crippled by fines and cease-and-desist orders.

keithpeter 14y ago

If we accept the message behind this apparent parable (Samsung tablets have higher visibility now because of the lawsuit) is this not a great opportunity for WinRT based tablets? Trusted brand, cheaper than iPad (I'm assuming for the WinRT ones) range of styles from different manufacturers, a (possibly limited) version of Office...

Tichy 14y ago

One more thing about the lawsuit: the battle startet long before it was taken to court, with all of Apple's ads suggesting that they invented stuff they did not really invent. And now a jury got to decide, that was of course also raised/brainwashed with Apple advertisements.

nachteilig 14y ago

Why do I have a strong feeling that this is anti-Apple blogspam? If people confuse Apple products with Samsung products, it's because Samsung wants that confusion to exist. Apple's innovations weren't "obvious" until Apple put them into their products. Please consider the criticism iPhone received for not having a keyboard or buttons back in 2007.

metatronscube 14y ago

Nope, I will now only ever consider Samsung capable of bad ripoffs and plagiarism.