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It’s great for the very wealthy. See also: Singapore. When I first visited I was amazed at how little traffic there was. Turns out they had imposed so severe c

• lokar 1y ago
  Driving into manhattan and paying for parking is something only the fairly wealthy could afford anyway.
  • decafninja 1y ago
    Driving into Manhattan every day? Yes. Occasionally? Tons of middle class people do it. The majority of my social circle consists of middle and upper middle class Newjerseyans. Many commute daily into Manhattan via public transit. But if they’re going in for anything other than work, it’s always the car. Which congestion price is perfectly fine for if you’re only going in occasionally.
    • the_mitsuhiko 1y ago
      > Occasionally? Tons of middle class people do it. I would not be surprised if occasionally driving into Manhattan is cheaper now. Surely the excessive prices on parking should be going down.
      • lokar 1y ago
        It should be cheaper already if you place a non-zero value on your time.
        • mc32 1y ago
          Do people put a value on time when not doing value added stuff? When they go for a walk, do they instead run? Do they try to only meet up with friends who can return an investment on their time? Do these people not shoot the shit? Are they busy beavers at all times maximizing wealth?
          • kfajdsl 1y ago
            These are all things that people find value in. Most people don't assign any value to sitting in traffic.
          • recursive 1y ago
            Shooting the shit could be precisely what they do instead of idling in traffic. Most people would prefer it.
            • mc32 1y ago
              I dunno, man, It's rumored they have this thing called cellular telephony technology allowing just such a thing while in traffic --I could be wrong though, thems being wealthy and shit.
              • recursive 1y ago
                The rumors are true, but you seem to have missed my point. Some people might prefer to communicate in person. You might not be one of them.
        • SoftTalker 1y ago
          Most normal people put a very low value on their time, because they don't have any practical way to monitize an extra hour. It's just "free" time.
      • echelon 1y ago
        The supply demand curve might mean prices temporarily drop with demand, but that might put pressure on some parking to convert to other uses, which will then lower supply.
    • lokar 1y ago
      I agree. Also, the money from the fee is supposed to improve transit (we will see how long that lasts…), and IMO a share should go to NJ transit into manhattan.
  • shipscode 1y ago
    Tell me you've never lived in lower Manhattan without telling me you've never lived in lower Manhattan. Edit: Happy to be downvoted by people who actually live in Manhattan and take 5 seconds out of their day to talk to anybody who works in a local store. Brooklyn transplants can move along.
    • lokar 1y ago
      17th and 6th av
      • lokar 1y ago
        I would (I’ve since moved) worry that less traffic would mean faster cars. As a pedestrian I did appreciate just how slowly cars normally move in Manhattan.
        • selectodude 1y ago
          Manhattan is blanketed in unmarked speed cameras.
    • mtalantikite 1y ago
      Yeah, this is the only disagreement I have with congestion pricing too. I have a friend that lives in Tribeca (in the place he grew up in in the 80s) and needs a car to drive to his art studio in New Jersey. I feel like they should get an exemption or at least a heavily reduced rate. But my in laws that drive in from the suburbs a few times a year? They can afford the $9.
      • lokar 1y ago
        In such a dense and complex place it’s impossible to avoid at least some negative impacts, at least early on. Hopefully transit will improve.
      • righthand 1y ago
        Your buddy should move to NJ if he needs low cost access to his studio. The roads will be tolled and the price will only go up. The entire point is to reduce the amount of people using the roads for a cheap benefit (ex living in Tribeca one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the city and complaining that you have no low cost access to NJ).
  • kjkjadksj 1y ago
    If that were true congestion pricing would not affect car counts
    • lokar 1y ago
      Like any moderate financial incentive it impacts a minority of people at the margin. For phenomenon like traffic that can make a big impact.
  • tetromino_ 1y ago
    I have a school teacher friend who commutes by car every day between the Bronx and upper Manhattan (outside the congestion zone - but you said "Manhattan" without any qualifier). Obviously she doesn't pay for parking. Public transportation in her case would be quite inconvenient due to how the subway lines are laid out.
• CPLX 1y ago
  That was the original criticism, or rather the cynical attempt to block it. It hasn't panned out that way at all however, it's just great for everyone. OK, actually not everyone. There's one very specific group that this sucks for, which not-coincidentally was the group that was loudly opposing it using the excuse you tried. That group is people who work for the city and/or are connected so they get free daily parking. That's a lot of cops and firefighters and various city functionaries at various levels and agencies that have been able to get their hands on parking placards. It's a core NYC subculture and they were the annoying loud voices that tried to stop this. Almost anyone who was driving into central Manhattan and paying for parking already is thrilled by this, it's only a little more expensive and in exchange they shave hours of traffic out of their commutes. It's the people that were gaming the system to get free parking that are suddenly screwed. Fuck them.
  • wang_li 1y ago
    It's a bit absurd though. The roads are paid by tax payers from the general fund of the city, but they discriminate on how much it costs to use those roads based on where you live. If everyone entering the zone paid the same then it would be one thing. But they have exemptions and deductions based on residency and income. If they are going to charge people who don't live in the area and not charge the people who do live in the area, then the people in the area should have to buy all the roads and pay for the upkeep.
    • CPLX 1y ago
      > It's a bit absurd though. The roads are paid by tax payers from the general fund of the city, but they discriminate on how much it costs to use those roads based on where you live. If everyone entering the zone paid the same then it would be one thing. But they have exemptions and deductions based on residency and income. If they are going to charge people who don't live in the area and not charge the people who do live in the area, then the people in the area should have to buy all the roads and pay for the upkeep. These aren't deep moral questions. You're trying to draw some sort of universal fairness doctrine around this that doesn't apply. It's just public policy. The people who live in the area are buying all the roads, through various taxes and fees. Roads don't work the way you describe. Are you aware that there's literally no way to drive to Long Island without going through New York City? Or that driving from Princeton New Jersey to Providence Rhode Island requires going through New York City or driving about 40-50 miles out of the way? Why is all this solely the problem of people who live in Manhattan below Central Park again?
• jcranmer 1y ago
  The biggest improvement are for the very poor, who rely more heavily than other socioeconomic classes on bus transportation, which has seen the greatest efficiency improvements from congestion pricing. The merely poor or middle class, in NYC, are already reliant on mass transit (although more likely the subway rather than the bus system), which sees somewhat more indirect benefits from increased funding as a result of the congestion charge. The people whom congestion pricing hurts the most are those who feel that public transit is beneath them but still rely on driving in Manhattan to a degree that the congestion charge is a significant tax. Which unfortunately seems to include most of the media class in NYC, hence the incessant whining about it.
  • dh2022 1y ago
    With this new moneys coming in they will not even fix one of these 50-year old subway switches. Nevermind buying some new subway cars, or improving ventilation / air conditioning during summer. This new moneys will go to waste. Meanwhile, yeah, rich investment bankers get to spend less time in traffic.
    • ceejayoz 1y ago
      > With this new moneys coming in they will not even fix one of these 50-year old subway switches. Nevermind buying some new subway cars... https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/29/nyregion/mta-budget.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/29/nyregion/mta-budget.html "The M.T.A. expects to spend $10.9 billion to buy roughly 2,000 new rail cars, an order that will include 1,500 subway cars and more than 500 for the Metro-North and Long Island Rail Road. Some of the train fleet has not been updated since at least 1980, the year of the M.T.A.’s first capital plan. Another $3.3 billion will buy and support 2,261 new buses." "The plan includes $5.4 billion to modernize the subway signal system, which dates back to the Great Depression. Over the past 15 months, the antiquated system has led to an average of nearly 4,000 train delays a month, according to the M.T.A."
• maest 1y ago
  > vast majority can’t afford to own one. Why is that an issue? Public transportation and taxis are readily available.