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> I get the need for Wayland. I get where X11 is. But I have seen multiple people saying they’re about to switch off Linux to something else because the lack of

> I get the need for Wayland. I get where X11 is. But I have seen multiple people saying they’re about to switch off Linux to something else because the lack of accessibility in Wayland (again, relative to X11) since they don’t really have a choice without giving up on software updates. I fully appreciate that asking people to switch DEs is a lot, but I'm still gonna nitpick: X still works. I think you can even get GNOME + X11 + a fully updated distro working if you're willing to force the matter (based on https://www.neowin.net/news/fedora-43-gnome-desktop-to-remove-support-for-x11-sessions/ https://www.neowin.net/news/fedora-43-gnome-desktop-to-remov... , not even Fedora has actually fully dropped it yet). And of course if you can switch to another DE it becomes quite easy. If you're willing to switch off Linux completely, isn't it worth trying ex. XFCE first? - sent from my laptop running Xorg

lmm 1y ago
> If you're willing to switch off Linux completely, isn't it worth trying ex. XFCE first? Presumably they want or need something officially supported on the scale of Fedora, in which case not really. Like sure, you can use it that way for now, but what are you going to do when it breaks? Even if you're willing to go it alone and put your own system together, surely it's easier to switch to FreeBSD at that point.
- MBCook 1y ago
  That’s what I assume the issue is, and why I said “up to date”. I think you’re dead on. Yeah it may still be usable today. Will it be with the hardware in your next laptop? Will your preferred DE or WM or distro keep support? What about the apps you depend on? You’re going to want/need an update and the whole house of cards may come down because there is no choice anymore. If these users thought “just keep using X11” was viable I don’t think they’d be looking to switch OSes over this. We haven’t trust they know their situation and options. I was wondering about something like FreeBSD. I have no idea what they’re doing with X11/Wayland and wondered what their accessibility situation was. I don’t think I’ve seen them mentioned in the conversations about this from visually impaired users, but I don’t know why.
- baobun 1y ago
  XFCE is still in Fedora and AFAIK not dropping X11 anytime soon if ever. As opposed to GNOME (removing support upstream) and KDE Plasma (Fedora disabling/removing X11 parts from their packages). If you're on Fedora and want X11 KDE without fiddling, openSUSE Tumbleweed could be worth checking out.
  - lmm 1y ago
    If Fedora is removing X11 parts of KDE Plasma, presumably the only reason they're not also removing them from XFCE is that they offer a lower level of support for XFCE in the first place.

lmm 1y ago

> If you're willing to switch off Linux completely, isn't it worth trying ex. XFCE first? Presumably they want or need something officially supported on the scale of Fedora, in which case not really. Like sure, you can use it that way for now, but what are you going to do when it breaks? Even if you're willing to go it alone and put your own system together, surely it's easier to switch to FreeBSD at that point.

MBCook 1y ago
That’s what I assume the issue is, and why I said “up to date”. I think you’re dead on. Yeah it may still be usable today. Will it be with the hardware in your next laptop? Will your preferred DE or WM or distro keep support? What about the apps you depend on? You’re going to want/need an update and the whole house of cards may come down because there is no choice anymore. If these users thought “just keep using X11” was viable I don’t think they’d be looking to switch OSes over this. We haven’t trust they know their situation and options. I was wondering about something like FreeBSD. I have no idea what they’re doing with X11/Wayland and wondered what their accessibility situation was. I don’t think I’ve seen them mentioned in the conversations about this from visually impaired users, but I don’t know why.
baobun 1y ago
XFCE is still in Fedora and AFAIK not dropping X11 anytime soon if ever. As opposed to GNOME (removing support upstream) and KDE Plasma (Fedora disabling/removing X11 parts from their packages). If you're on Fedora and want X11 KDE without fiddling, openSUSE Tumbleweed could be worth checking out.
- lmm 1y ago
  If Fedora is removing X11 parts of KDE Plasma, presumably the only reason they're not also removing them from XFCE is that they offer a lower level of support for XFCE in the first place.