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> HEIC is good, as long as you pinky promise to never ever leave Apple's ecosystem, ie HEIC sucks. HEIC was developed by the MPEG folks and is an ISO standard,

> HEIC is good, as long as you pinky promise to never ever leave Apple's ecosystem, ie HEIC sucks. HEIC was developed by the MPEG folks and is an ISO standard, ISO/IEC 23008-12:2022: * https://www.iso.org/standard/83650.html https://www.iso.org/standard/83650.html * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_For... An HEIC image is generally a still frame from ITU-T H.265† (HEVC): * https://www.geeky-gadgets.com/heif-avc-h-264-h-265-heic-and-hevc-explained/ https://www.geeky-gadgets.com/heif-avc-h-264-h-265-heic-and-... OS support includes Windows 10 v1083, Android 10+, Ubuntu 20.04, Debian 10, Fedora 36. Lots of cameras and smartphones support it as well. There's nothing Apple-specific about it. Apple went through the process of licensing H.265, so they got HEIC 'for free' and use it as the default image format because over JPEG it supports: HDR, >8-bit colour, etc. †Like WebP was similar to an image/frame from a VP8 video.

socalgal2 1y ago
> HEIC was developed by the MPEG folks And the MPEG folks were so cool with video, all that licensing BS. Sounds great. No thanks!
- ralfd 1y ago
  Arent all MPEG patents expired?
  - culturestate 1y ago
    No, they’re in a patent pool. There’s what looks like a relatively up-to-date list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via-LA#H.265/HEVC_licensors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via-LA#H.265/HEVC_licensors
    - TeMPOraL 1y ago
      5203 active patents for HEVC, 1480 for H.264. That's just plain insane! I get that video formats are complex, but complex enough to consist of 5000+ distinct, nontrivial inventions?
      - j16sdiz 1y ago
        Many of those are just marginally related, and might not apply to the actual standard.
- culturestate 1y ago
  Confusingly, there are two different MPEGs in this context. MPEG the standards group is organized by ISO and IEC, along with JPEG. The one you’re thinking of - MPEG LA, the licensing company - is a patent pool (which has since been subsumed by a different one[1]) that’s unaffiliated with MPEG the standards group. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via-LA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via-LA
  - nottorp 1y ago
    So what good is it to have a separate entity doing the standard when the standard is unaffordable outside the top 500?
- throw0101c 1y ago
  > And the MPEG folks were so cool with video, all that licensing BS. Sounds great. No thanks! Not wrong, but this is a different topic/objection than the GP's 'being locked into Apple's ecosystem'. And as the Wikipedia article for HEIC shows, there's plenty of support for the format, even in open source OSes. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format#Operating_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_For...
  - leguminous 1y ago
    As far as I know, that's only support for the container format. You can't actually decode HEIC without also installing libde265, which you are supposed to have a license for. I'm not even sure how you'd go about getting an individual license.
    - throw0101d 1y ago
      > You can't actually decode HEIC without also installing libde265, which you are supposed to have a license for. I'm not even sure how you'd go about getting an individual license. Debian doesn't seem to have a problem with it: * https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libde265 https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libde265 * https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libheif https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libheif
jiggawatts 1y ago
> OS support includes Windows 10 v1083 Ba-ha-ha... ha-ha... no. Support is virtually non-existent. Every year or so, I try to use my Windows PC to convert a RAW photo taken with a high-end Nikon mirrorless camera to a proper HDR photo (in any format) and send it to my friends and family that use iDevices. This has been literally impossible for the last decade, and will remain impossible until the heat death of the universe. Read-only support is totally broken in a wide range of apps, including Microsoft-only apps. There are many Windows imaging APIs, and I would be very surprised if more than one gained HEIC support. Which is probably broken. Microsoft will never support an Apple format, and vice versa. Every single new photo or video format in the last 25 years has been pushed by one megacorp, and adoption outside of their own ecosystem is close to zero. JPEG-XL is the only non-megacorp format that is any good any got and got multi-vendor traction, which then turned into "sliding backwards on oiled ice". (Google removed support from Chromium, which is the end of that sad story.)
- illiac786 1y ago
  It's not yet the end, a rust decoder is on the way: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/pull/1064#issue-2503684693 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/pull/1064#iss... One day, people will wonder why it took so long, and I'll smile =) That's the decoder: https://github.com/libjxl/jxl-rs https://github.com/libjxl/jxl-rs (why they couldn't use jxl-oxide, I don't know) Also good to know, the ff nightly feature for jpeg xl currently does NOT use the aforementioned decoder, it uses something else, hence it's worthless for testing at the moment...
- throw0101c 1y ago
  >> OS support includes Windows 10 v1083 > Ba-ha-ha... ha-ha... no. […] Feel free to hit "Edit" on the Wikipedia page and correct it then: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format#Operating_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_For... > Microsoft will never support an Apple format, and vice versa. Once again, it's not an Apple format: it was developed by MPEG and is published by ISO/IEC, just like H.264 and H.265. Or do you think H.264 and H.265 are an "Apple format" as well?

socalgal2 1y ago

> HEIC was developed by the MPEG folks And the MPEG folks were so cool with video, all that licensing BS. Sounds great. No thanks!

ralfd 1y ago
Arent all MPEG patents expired?
- culturestate 1y ago
  No, they’re in a patent pool. There’s what looks like a relatively up-to-date list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via-LA#H.265/HEVC_licensors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via-LA#H.265/HEVC_licensors
  - TeMPOraL 1y ago
    5203 active patents for HEVC, 1480 for H.264. That's just plain insane! I get that video formats are complex, but complex enough to consist of 5000+ distinct, nontrivial inventions?
    - j16sdiz 1y ago
      Many of those are just marginally related, and might not apply to the actual standard.
culturestate 1y ago
Confusingly, there are two different MPEGs in this context. MPEG the standards group is organized by ISO and IEC, along with JPEG. The one you’re thinking of - MPEG LA, the licensing company - is a patent pool (which has since been subsumed by a different one[1]) that’s unaffiliated with MPEG the standards group. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via-LA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via-LA
- nottorp 1y ago
  So what good is it to have a separate entity doing the standard when the standard is unaffordable outside the top 500?
throw0101c 1y ago
> And the MPEG folks were so cool with video, all that licensing BS. Sounds great. No thanks! Not wrong, but this is a different topic/objection than the GP's 'being locked into Apple's ecosystem'. And as the Wikipedia article for HEIC shows, there's plenty of support for the format, even in open source OSes. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format#Operating_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_For...
- leguminous 1y ago
  As far as I know, that's only support for the container format. You can't actually decode HEIC without also installing libde265, which you are supposed to have a license for. I'm not even sure how you'd go about getting an individual license.
  - throw0101d 1y ago
    > You can't actually decode HEIC without also installing libde265, which you are supposed to have a license for. I'm not even sure how you'd go about getting an individual license. Debian doesn't seem to have a problem with it: * https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libde265 https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libde265 * https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libheif https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libheif

jiggawatts 1y ago

> OS support includes Windows 10 v1083 Ba-ha-ha... ha-ha... no. Support is virtually non-existent. Every year or so, I try to use my Windows PC to convert a RAW photo taken with a high-end Nikon mirrorless camera to a proper HDR photo (in any format) and send it to my friends and family that use iDevices. This has been literally impossible for the last decade, and will remain impossible until the heat death of the universe. Read-only support is totally broken in a wide range of apps, including Microsoft-only apps. There are many Windows imaging APIs, and I would be very surprised if more than one gained HEIC support. Which is probably broken. Microsoft will never support an Apple format, and vice versa. Every single new photo or video format in the last 25 years has been pushed by one megacorp, and adoption outside of their own ecosystem is close to zero. JPEG-XL is the only non-megacorp format that is any good any got and got multi-vendor traction, which then turned into "sliding backwards on oiled ice". (Google removed support from Chromium, which is the end of that sad story.)

illiac786 1y ago
It's not yet the end, a rust decoder is on the way: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/pull/1064#issue-2503684693 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/pull/1064#iss... One day, people will wonder why it took so long, and I'll smile =) That's the decoder: https://github.com/libjxl/jxl-rs https://github.com/libjxl/jxl-rs (why they couldn't use jxl-oxide, I don't know) Also good to know, the ff nightly feature for jpeg xl currently does NOT use the aforementioned decoder, it uses something else, hence it's worthless for testing at the moment...
throw0101c 1y ago
>> OS support includes Windows 10 v1083 > Ba-ha-ha... ha-ha... no. […] Feel free to hit "Edit" on the Wikipedia page and correct it then: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_Format#Operating_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Image_File_For... > Microsoft will never support an Apple format, and vice versa. Once again, it's not an Apple format: it was developed by MPEG and is published by ISO/IEC, just like H.264 and H.265. Or do you think H.264 and H.265 are an "Apple format" as well?