4 ms·

> we're meant to be upset that they dared treat another agent of the state, I'm upset because a US citizen was arrested for asking a reasonable question to som

> we're meant to be upset that they dared treat another agent of the state, I'm upset because a US citizen was arrested for asking a reasonable question to some government officials before complying with the government officials.

ars 1y ago
[flagged]
- jzebedee 1y ago
  Editorializing what, exactly? The rule of law? "what they were doing" is attempting to illegally abduct someone. The comptroller's "impeding" was a demand to see the one thing that would make their request a legal arrest. Instead, they arrested the comptroller without even a pretense of the law.
  - anthony_d 1y ago
    ICE agents are not generally required to present warrants. The agent has all sorts of conditions where they get to say no. If you think you’re above the law and can tell them what to do then you’re going to be arrested.
    - scienceman 1y ago
      Agents who are masked and don't have any obligations to present warrants before abducting someone... really are we saying this is reasonable?
      - lazide 1y ago
        Police in general don’t need to show warrants to arrest people. In high profile situations it may be done to minimize political blowback, but clearly that is not a primary concern in this situation (except toward individual officers, which is why they are masking). In many situations, they just need a documentable/articulable (to a judge, later) reasonable belief that a crime was occurring in their presence, or in other situations that a specific crime had occurred and there was a reasonable belief that person had committed that crime. Resisting arrest, and impeding official business of a police officer are usually arrest-able offenses almost anywhere. Details vary by jurisdiction and crime, but ‘you need a warrant to arrest someone’ is an edge case, not the common case. In those cases, it’s also often an indictment or bench warrant.
        baybal2 1y ago
        [dead]
        scienceman 1y ago
        That all makes sense, but these don't look like police officers — these are guys wearing backwards baseball caps and surgical masks. Effectively, our trust that someone holds position of authority in law enforcement is based on their uniform and badge. If we normalize some dude in a mask and a baseball cap as someone that has the authority to arrest you and put you in an unmarked van, that represents a real and serious breakdown of trust and order in society. ICE agents should wear a real uniform (ICE with their real name), have uncovered faces, and be required to show badge/authorization upon request -- otherwise members of society have to reason to trust them (or people who look like them).
        lazide 1y ago
        Yup, and don’t forget DEA getting into full on shoot outs while dressed even worse. It’s a real problem, just like no knock warrants, asset seizure, lack of body cams, milsurplus equipment grants to police departments, overly aggressive training, parallel construction, arrest quotas, etc. IMO, in this case the tactics are being done intentionally (and at the leadership level) to terrorize people and stir the pot to incite ‘bad behavior’ that can be spun to justify crackdowns. Individual officers may be true believers, but many are also ‘along for the ride’ and trying to not get too much blowback. Either way, just following orders is no excuse. Troll in Chief.
  - anon291 1y ago
    You can legally arrest someone without a warrant, if they are committing a crime
msgodel 1y ago
Government employees have more responsibilities than normal US citizens. If he was hiding someone he was derelict in that responsibility and sending the law after him is completely reasonable.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
  He wasn't hiding anyone. He was out in a hallway, along with the person he had linked arms with. Watch the video. He was refusing to unlink his arm from the person ICE wanted to detain until ICE presented documentation establishing the legality of what they were doing. It was a perfectly reasonable request.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
moduspol 1y ago
[flagged]
- scienceman 1y ago
  I am not seeing the "assaulting law enforcement" in this video -- am I missing something?
  - foogazi 1y ago
    What’s with the bootlickers in these posts ?
    - detourdog 1y ago
      The USA is 34% bootlickers.
      - MasihMinawal 1y ago
        still less than a quarter
        BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
        34% is more than a quarter
        morkalork 1y ago
        Hah, it's like a meme came to life! https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/06/17/third-pound-burger-fractions/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/06/17/third-pound-burger-fr...
        detourdog 1y ago
        I combed that story over and couldn't find out if it was true. Did it fail because 4 is biffer than 3?
JKCalhoun 1y ago
I suspect ICE just helped elect Brad Lander.
- apparent 1y ago
  Despite his best efforts to use this situation to make a name for himself, and despite the many shortcomings of his opponents, he will likely not be elected.
- jgalt212 1y ago
  He's still a 99:1 bet. Get in now, if you feel that way. https://polymarket.com/event/who-will-win-dem-nomination-for-nyc-mayor https://polymarket.com/event/who-will-win-dem-nomination-for...
timr 1y ago
> I'm upset because a US citizen was arrested for asking a reasonable question to some government officials before complying with the government officials. Some basic facts are true here: a) Brad Lander had no official capacity in that situation. b) As a random person, he had no right to demand to see any documents, whatsoever, from the people doing the arrest. c) Even if he thought the detention was illegal, and the police were completely fake -- and let's be real, he didn't think that -- the right way to handle it would be to call the police. You don't just get to throw yourself in the middle of a law-enforcement action without consequence because you're a politician (or upset, or "moral", or...) --- Edit: folks, read the article and watch the video [1]. A lot of you are just repeating things that plainly aren't true. Lander was in a federal courthouse. Uniformed police officers were present, and participated in his arrest. He had just attended the trial of the person being detained. There's simply no reasonable way that Lander believed that this was a "kidnapping", as many of you are saying. He knew exactly what was going on, and he knew exactly what he was doing. And the fact that cameras were there certainly wasn't a coincidence. [1] https://www.amny.com/news/brad-lander-arrested-ice-court-hearing-06172025/ https://www.amny.com/news/brad-lander-arrested-ice-court-hea...
- PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago
  This "let them do it, and try to rectify wrongs later" model is why we end up with innocent gay hairdressers in CECOT. There are clearly established procedures for US law enforcement (which includes ICE). If they are not following those procedures, then any citizen has the right to raise this as an issue, politician or not. They don't get to just haul people away because you have no "official capacity". Do you have a legal right to see the documents that MUST be presented to the person they are seeking to detain? Probably not. Do you have a moral duty to insist the US law enforcement HAS that document before leaving the situation? Many people would say yes. The 2nd amendment crowd are strong on the idea of guns as a means of resisting tyranny. Other people feel similarly about standing up to law enforcement being done illegally.
  - timr 1y ago
    > Do you have a legal right to see the documents that MUST be presented to the person they are seeking to detain? Probably not. Do you have a moral duty to insist the US law enforcement HAS that document before leaving the situation? Many people would say yes. Well, you can theorize a "moral duty" to do whatever you want, but that won't stop you from getting actually arrested, under real laws. But you do you. The thing about being a martyr for your beliefs is that it comes with a downside. This article is trying to stir up controversy that someone doing something illegal (i.e. obstruction) was arrested for a valid reason.

ars 1y ago

[flagged]

jzebedee 1y ago
Editorializing what, exactly? The rule of law? "what they were doing" is attempting to illegally abduct someone. The comptroller's "impeding" was a demand to see the one thing that would make their request a legal arrest. Instead, they arrested the comptroller without even a pretense of the law.
- anthony_d 1y ago
  ICE agents are not generally required to present warrants. The agent has all sorts of conditions where they get to say no. If you think you’re above the law and can tell them what to do then you’re going to be arrested.
  - scienceman 1y ago
    Agents who are masked and don't have any obligations to present warrants before abducting someone... really are we saying this is reasonable?
    - lazide 1y ago
      Police in general don’t need to show warrants to arrest people. In high profile situations it may be done to minimize political blowback, but clearly that is not a primary concern in this situation (except toward individual officers, which is why they are masking). In many situations, they just need a documentable/articulable (to a judge, later) reasonable belief that a crime was occurring in their presence, or in other situations that a specific crime had occurred and there was a reasonable belief that person had committed that crime. Resisting arrest, and impeding official business of a police officer are usually arrest-able offenses almost anywhere. Details vary by jurisdiction and crime, but ‘you need a warrant to arrest someone’ is an edge case, not the common case. In those cases, it’s also often an indictment or bench warrant.
      - baybal2 1y ago
        [dead]
      - scienceman 1y ago
        That all makes sense, but these don't look like police officers — these are guys wearing backwards baseball caps and surgical masks. Effectively, our trust that someone holds position of authority in law enforcement is based on their uniform and badge. If we normalize some dude in a mask and a baseball cap as someone that has the authority to arrest you and put you in an unmarked van, that represents a real and serious breakdown of trust and order in society. ICE agents should wear a real uniform (ICE with their real name), have uncovered faces, and be required to show badge/authorization upon request -- otherwise members of society have to reason to trust them (or people who look like them).
        lazide 1y ago
        Yup, and don’t forget DEA getting into full on shoot outs while dressed even worse. It’s a real problem, just like no knock warrants, asset seizure, lack of body cams, milsurplus equipment grants to police departments, overly aggressive training, parallel construction, arrest quotas, etc. IMO, in this case the tactics are being done intentionally (and at the leadership level) to terrorize people and stir the pot to incite ‘bad behavior’ that can be spun to justify crackdowns. Individual officers may be true believers, but many are also ‘along for the ride’ and trying to not get too much blowback. Either way, just following orders is no excuse. Troll in Chief.
- anon291 1y ago
  You can legally arrest someone without a warrant, if they are committing a crime

msgodel 1y ago

Government employees have more responsibilities than normal US citizens. If he was hiding someone he was derelict in that responsibility and sending the law after him is completely reasonable.

sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
He wasn't hiding anyone. He was out in a hallway, along with the person he had linked arms with. Watch the video. He was refusing to unlink his arm from the person ICE wanted to detain until ICE presented documentation establishing the legality of what they were doing. It was a perfectly reasonable request.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

moduspol 1y ago

[flagged]

scienceman 1y ago
I am not seeing the "assaulting law enforcement" in this video -- am I missing something?
- foogazi 1y ago
  What’s with the bootlickers in these posts ?
  - detourdog 1y ago
    The USA is 34% bootlickers.
    - MasihMinawal 1y ago
      still less than a quarter
      - BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
        34% is more than a quarter
        morkalork 1y ago
        Hah, it's like a meme came to life! https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/06/17/third-pound-burger-fractions/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/06/17/third-pound-burger-fr...
        detourdog 1y ago
        I combed that story over and couldn't find out if it was true. Did it fail because 4 is biffer than 3?

JKCalhoun 1y ago

I suspect ICE just helped elect Brad Lander.

apparent 1y ago
Despite his best efforts to use this situation to make a name for himself, and despite the many shortcomings of his opponents, he will likely not be elected.
jgalt212 1y ago
He's still a 99:1 bet. Get in now, if you feel that way. https://polymarket.com/event/who-will-win-dem-nomination-for-nyc-mayor https://polymarket.com/event/who-will-win-dem-nomination-for...

timr 1y ago

> I'm upset because a US citizen was arrested for asking a reasonable question to some government officials before complying with the government officials. Some basic facts are true here: a) Brad Lander had no official capacity in that situation. b) As a random person, he had no right to demand to see any documents, whatsoever, from the people doing the arrest. c) Even if he thought the detention was illegal, and the police were completely fake -- and let's be real, he didn't think that -- the right way to handle it would be to call the police. You don't just get to throw yourself in the middle of a law-enforcement action without consequence because you're a politician (or upset, or "moral", or...) --- Edit: folks, read the article and watch the video [1]. A lot of you are just repeating things that plainly aren't true. Lander was in a federal courthouse. Uniformed police officers were present, and participated in his arrest. He had just attended the trial of the person being detained. There's simply no reasonable way that Lander believed that this was a "kidnapping", as many of you are saying. He knew exactly what was going on, and he knew exactly what he was doing. And the fact that cameras were there certainly wasn't a coincidence. [1] https://www.amny.com/news/brad-lander-arrested-ice-court-hearing-06172025/ https://www.amny.com/news/brad-lander-arrested-ice-court-hea...

PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago
This "let them do it, and try to rectify wrongs later" model is why we end up with innocent gay hairdressers in CECOT. There are clearly established procedures for US law enforcement (which includes ICE). If they are not following those procedures, then any citizen has the right to raise this as an issue, politician or not. They don't get to just haul people away because you have no "official capacity". Do you have a legal right to see the documents that MUST be presented to the person they are seeking to detain? Probably not. Do you have a moral duty to insist the US law enforcement HAS that document before leaving the situation? Many people would say yes. The 2nd amendment crowd are strong on the idea of guns as a means of resisting tyranny. Other people feel similarly about standing up to law enforcement being done illegally.
- timr 1y ago
  > Do you have a legal right to see the documents that MUST be presented to the person they are seeking to detain? Probably not. Do you have a moral duty to insist the US law enforcement HAS that document before leaving the situation? Many people would say yes. Well, you can theorize a "moral duty" to do whatever you want, but that won't stop you from getting actually arrested, under real laws. But you do you. The thing about being a martyr for your beliefs is that it comes with a downside. This article is trying to stir up controversy that someone doing something illegal (i.e. obstruction) was arrested for a valid reason.