5 ms·

I'll never understand why Steam Workshop didn't take off as the de facto mod delivery platform over NexusMods or other random sites. It seemed perfectly positio

I'll never understand why Steam Workshop didn't take off as the de facto mod delivery platform over NexusMods or other random sites. It seemed perfectly positioned to do so.

esperent 1y ago
Presumably it doesn't work with pirated games.
- diggan 1y ago
  Well, it goes a step further and doesn't work with any non-Steam game (unsurprisingly), so it basically locks you to Steam Workshop.
- ddtaylor 1y ago
  It does work with pirated games AFAIK. Steam as a platform is very open in many ways. Likely not intentional, just holes that never got plugged. Most of the pirated steam clients just lie and say you're always playing a free Steam game that everyone owns and use that to backchannel all of the steam features like messaging, p2p, etc. Last I checked they even had some rigged up system for achievements since some games interact with them in ways that are needed.
  - esperent 1y ago
    I got curious after writing my comment and decided I should research it. What I found was a couple of people on reddit saying it was possible, but getting a ton of downvotes and replies saying that they're wrong, that it's no longer possible. At the very least it looked fairly convoluted, and possibly you need to also own the game on steam to download mods for non steam (pirated or otherwise) versions of the game. I don't have an oar in this fight - my comment about pirated games was mostly tongue in cheek - but I am glad the main mod site isn't tied to owning the game on one particular store.
beart 1y ago
Despite how annoying it is to navigate around nexus mods, the workshop is somehow worse.
selfhoster11 1y ago
Not everyone has or wants Steam. I'd rather deal with NexusMods than with Valve as a GOG user.
- ddtaylor 1y ago
  As someone who has been using Steam since I had to put my WONID from my Half-Life CD, what's wrong with Steam?
  - subscribed 1y ago
    I can't use Workshop mod with my GOG version of the game, but can use Nexus Mod mod with any version. At least I didn't found a way, and that one reason alone is enough for me to avoid the Workshop.
    - ddtaylor 1y ago
      It depends on the game and what the mod maker decided. I made the mod for the Divinity: Original Sin that changes a few bytes in the game XML files to allow for 4 players in game instead of just 2, since it was mostly supported but probably removed for console porting simplicity. This is a braindead simple mod that just needs to find some XML tag inside the embedded EXE/DLL file and update it. I didn't even have to update any checksums, etc. When I published the mod I chose to target the hashes/offsets of the Steam EXE since that was what everyone had. So, while I didn't target the workshop (as this modification could not be done with it) I did target Steam end-users.
  - amiga386 1y ago
    1. For the most part[*], publishers on Steam use DRM, from kernel-level DRM which can crash and pwn your computer, to Valve's relatively lukewarm Steamworks., whereas GOG primarily (exclusively?) sells DRM-free games. There are lots of ideological and practical concerns with DRM, I won't list them here other than to say game players want to be in control of their machines and their experience, not let game publishers control their machines. 2. Steam policy is that you can only run the very latest release of a game (it will update when you go online, and you can't remain offline forever). It takes away your choice to reject publishers bad updates - for example, when 2K forcibly added their marketplace/launcher malware to Bioshock games, breaking them on Linux, Steam was their henchman/goon forcing it on everyone. [*] Not everbody! https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_g...
washmyelbows 1y ago
Agreed. It's so painless to use and yet the adoption is so bad
xnorswap 1y ago
The only game that I know that uses steam workshop for mods is Rimworld. It works okay, but it's a little clunky. Discoverability is weird. It's concept of "recently trending" etc produces some dubious recommendations. Actually installing mods is kind of okay, but it doesn't handle pre-requisites very well. It'll tell you that you're missing pre-reqs, but it doesn't offer to install them. It's a positive feedback issue, where because games don't tend to use workshop, it doesn't get much love from valve, and therefore games avoid it. I don't know how much workshop allows developers to do curation either, so perhaps games would rather partner with a platform they can better influence mod curation. It's definitely preferable as a user compared to the worst-of-all-worlds that is Stardew Valley modding. There you have a combination of "Here, download this exe, it's fine we promise" (SMAPI), and nexus mods for the discoverability / install / updates of the mods themselves.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 1y ago
  There was some Hungarian? developer that runs https://rimworldbase.com/ https://rimworldbase.com/. I used to use it before I switched to Steam Workshop since it usually unfortunately falls behind (or at least did when I used it several years ago). That one is better for discoverability at least. The auto-update package management functionality of Steam Workshop is its killer feature. I can click a single button and get the latest updated versions of all my mods. I'm usually opposed to Steam on principle, opting instead for DRM free options for my games, but it's basically impossible to maintain any decent amount of mods without a manager like what Steam Workshop offers
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
StefanBatory 1y ago
Because it doesn't work with pirated games. Saying that only half jokingly.
- subscribed 1y ago
  Untrue. I downloaded a couple of mods for my GOG release of the game. Works well. Few more steps but otherwise doable. The truth is that Workshop is worse and aimed ONLY at Steam. So why would anyone bother.
maeln 1y ago
I guess because not everyone brought their game on steam, and it also probably does not work on pirated games.
ddtaylor 1y ago
Workshop has taken off a bit here and there, but it's worth remembering that basically when Steam Workshop was primed to take off was when Skyrim modding was becoming mainstream. I don't know the specifics of it, but I think the Steam Workshop had some "paid mods" and that rubbed everyone the wrong way during a time when modding was not monetized. There is a bigger question that is unsolved, both ethically and legally. If someone makes a Skyrim mod: (a) should the creator of the mod be allowed compensation and (b) should the game developer be entitled to garnish some amount? I have my own opinions, but I think the community doesn't really trust that a mod put on Steam will be available tomorrow for the price and under the conditions the mod creator envisioned.
- xnorswap 1y ago
  Paid mods are problematic because what happens if a game update breaks the API the mod uses? This frequently occurs in many games. Suddenly you've got an unhappy customer, and with money comes liability. I doubt any game developer would want the burden of being liable to maintain backward compatibility for old mod APIs to support third party mods, but if they take a cut of any money then they ought to be responsible for maintaining that. Part of the reason KSP has ironically had a modding renaissance is because the community knows that there won't be any updates which could break some of the more ambitious mods being made.
- subscribed 1y ago
  a) yes if they sell it b) no, why? does the carmaker get a cut from the unbranded accessories? If anything, it should be the other way round as the Oblivion reboot proves.
esskay 1y ago
Because Steam Workshop is only for games on Steam's shop, distributed by valve. That locks out huge chunks of your audience. If anything its good thats not taken off otherwise we'd have EpicMods, GogMods, etc and even more fragmentation. Sure it makes it easy for people who own the game on Steam, but what about everyone else? Also, as popular as Steam is, their workshop section is pretty awful. The search seems to have been cobbled together and has awful matching, the discoverability of mods is dire, and they're still using the same antiquated poor UX for discussions as they were over a decade ago.
add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
Being locked into a store would be much worse than being locked into an annoying independent site.
orthoxerox 1y ago
The curse of Valve. No one there cares about Steam Workshop enough to improve its UX. Every mod you "subscribe" to is automatically downloaded and installed, which means each game has to provide its own way to switch mods on and off. Nexus doesn't help you to manage your modlists, but at least it is smart enough to step back and let you manage them however you want to.

I'll never understand why Steam Workshop didn't take off as the de facto mod delivery platform over NexusMods or other random sites. It seemed perfectly positioned to do so.

esperent 1y ago

Presumably it doesn't work with pirated games.

diggan 1y ago
Well, it goes a step further and doesn't work with any non-Steam game (unsurprisingly), so it basically locks you to Steam Workshop.
ddtaylor 1y ago
It does work with pirated games AFAIK. Steam as a platform is very open in many ways. Likely not intentional, just holes that never got plugged. Most of the pirated steam clients just lie and say you're always playing a free Steam game that everyone owns and use that to backchannel all of the steam features like messaging, p2p, etc. Last I checked they even had some rigged up system for achievements since some games interact with them in ways that are needed.
- esperent 1y ago
  I got curious after writing my comment and decided I should research it. What I found was a couple of people on reddit saying it was possible, but getting a ton of downvotes and replies saying that they're wrong, that it's no longer possible. At the very least it looked fairly convoluted, and possibly you need to also own the game on steam to download mods for non steam (pirated or otherwise) versions of the game. I don't have an oar in this fight - my comment about pirated games was mostly tongue in cheek - but I am glad the main mod site isn't tied to owning the game on one particular store.

beart 1y ago

Despite how annoying it is to navigate around nexus mods, the workshop is somehow worse.

selfhoster11 1y ago

Not everyone has or wants Steam. I'd rather deal with NexusMods than with Valve as a GOG user.

ddtaylor 1y ago
As someone who has been using Steam since I had to put my WONID from my Half-Life CD, what's wrong with Steam?
- subscribed 1y ago
  I can't use Workshop mod with my GOG version of the game, but can use Nexus Mod mod with any version. At least I didn't found a way, and that one reason alone is enough for me to avoid the Workshop.
  - ddtaylor 1y ago
    It depends on the game and what the mod maker decided. I made the mod for the Divinity: Original Sin that changes a few bytes in the game XML files to allow for 4 players in game instead of just 2, since it was mostly supported but probably removed for console porting simplicity. This is a braindead simple mod that just needs to find some XML tag inside the embedded EXE/DLL file and update it. I didn't even have to update any checksums, etc. When I published the mod I chose to target the hashes/offsets of the Steam EXE since that was what everyone had. So, while I didn't target the workshop (as this modification could not be done with it) I did target Steam end-users.
- amiga386 1y ago
  1. For the most part[*], publishers on Steam use DRM, from kernel-level DRM which can crash and pwn your computer, to Valve's relatively lukewarm Steamworks., whereas GOG primarily (exclusively?) sells DRM-free games. There are lots of ideological and practical concerns with DRM, I won't list them here other than to say game players want to be in control of their machines and their experience, not let game publishers control their machines. 2. Steam policy is that you can only run the very latest release of a game (it will update when you go online, and you can't remain offline forever). It takes away your choice to reject publishers bad updates - for example, when 2K forcibly added their marketplace/launcher malware to Bioshock games, breaking them on Linux, Steam was their henchman/goon forcing it on everyone. [*] Not everbody! https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_g...

washmyelbows 1y ago

Agreed. It's so painless to use and yet the adoption is so bad

xnorswap 1y ago

The only game that I know that uses steam workshop for mods is Rimworld. It works okay, but it's a little clunky. Discoverability is weird. It's concept of "recently trending" etc produces some dubious recommendations. Actually installing mods is kind of okay, but it doesn't handle pre-requisites very well. It'll tell you that you're missing pre-reqs, but it doesn't offer to install them. It's a positive feedback issue, where because games don't tend to use workshop, it doesn't get much love from valve, and therefore games avoid it. I don't know how much workshop allows developers to do curation either, so perhaps games would rather partner with a platform they can better influence mod curation. It's definitely preferable as a user compared to the worst-of-all-worlds that is Stardew Valley modding. There you have a combination of "Here, download this exe, it's fine we promise" (SMAPI), and nexus mods for the discoverability / install / updates of the mods themselves.

SOLAR_FIELDS 1y ago
There was some Hungarian? developer that runs https://rimworldbase.com/ https://rimworldbase.com/. I used to use it before I switched to Steam Workshop since it usually unfortunately falls behind (or at least did when I used it several years ago). That one is better for discoverability at least. The auto-update package management functionality of Steam Workshop is its killer feature. I can click a single button and get the latest updated versions of all my mods. I'm usually opposed to Steam on principle, opting instead for DRM free options for my games, but it's basically impossible to maintain any decent amount of mods without a manager like what Steam Workshop offers
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

StefanBatory 1y ago

Because it doesn't work with pirated games. Saying that only half jokingly.

subscribed 1y ago
Untrue. I downloaded a couple of mods for my GOG release of the game. Works well. Few more steps but otherwise doable. The truth is that Workshop is worse and aimed ONLY at Steam. So why would anyone bother.

maeln 1y ago

I guess because not everyone brought their game on steam, and it also probably does not work on pirated games.

ddtaylor 1y ago

Workshop has taken off a bit here and there, but it's worth remembering that basically when Steam Workshop was primed to take off was when Skyrim modding was becoming mainstream. I don't know the specifics of it, but I think the Steam Workshop had some "paid mods" and that rubbed everyone the wrong way during a time when modding was not monetized. There is a bigger question that is unsolved, both ethically and legally. If someone makes a Skyrim mod: (a) should the creator of the mod be allowed compensation and (b) should the game developer be entitled to garnish some amount? I have my own opinions, but I think the community doesn't really trust that a mod put on Steam will be available tomorrow for the price and under the conditions the mod creator envisioned.

xnorswap 1y ago
Paid mods are problematic because what happens if a game update breaks the API the mod uses? This frequently occurs in many games. Suddenly you've got an unhappy customer, and with money comes liability. I doubt any game developer would want the burden of being liable to maintain backward compatibility for old mod APIs to support third party mods, but if they take a cut of any money then they ought to be responsible for maintaining that. Part of the reason KSP has ironically had a modding renaissance is because the community knows that there won't be any updates which could break some of the more ambitious mods being made.
subscribed 1y ago
a) yes if they sell it b) no, why? does the carmaker get a cut from the unbranded accessories? If anything, it should be the other way round as the Oblivion reboot proves.

esskay 1y ago

Because Steam Workshop is only for games on Steam's shop, distributed by valve. That locks out huge chunks of your audience. If anything its good thats not taken off otherwise we'd have EpicMods, GogMods, etc and even more fragmentation. Sure it makes it easy for people who own the game on Steam, but what about everyone else? Also, as popular as Steam is, their workshop section is pretty awful. The search seems to have been cobbled together and has awful matching, the discoverability of mods is dire, and they're still using the same antiquated poor UX for discussions as they were over a decade ago.

add-sub-mul-div 1y ago

Being locked into a store would be much worse than being locked into an annoying independent site.

orthoxerox 1y ago

The curse of Valve. No one there cares about Steam Workshop enough to improve its UX. Every mod you "subscribe" to is automatically downloaded and installed, which means each game has to provide its own way to switch mods on and off. Nexus doesn't help you to manage your modlists, but at least it is smart enough to step back and let you manage them however you want to.