4 ms·

Would be nice if these kinds of articles would at least take a paragraph to plug some alternatives, such as Signal.

jraby3 1y ago
WhatsApp has long promoted itself as a safe alternative to apps like Telegram and Google’s Android messaging. Users flocked to the app globally, finding it a cheap and secure alternative to texting, particularly people in unstable political climates and authoritarian countries, since its messages cannot be easily intercepted without access to personal devices.
- angry_octet 1y ago
  This reply screams LLM. Not really responding to the parent comment, nauseatingly anodyne in content. Not wrong, but not right. Will HN be overwhelmed with LLM trash?
  - add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
    With all the LLM enthusiasts here why would HN not be at the forefront of it?
  - gloxkiqcza 1y ago
    It’s a quote from the linked article.
    - angry_octet 1y ago
      But why reply with a snippet like that? Just a normal non-sequitur, or a machine regurgitation?
  - eviks 1y ago
    Your llm detector needs serious calibration
laurent123456 1y ago
As always network effect will be the problem. I know plenty of people on WhatsApp and almost nobody on Signal
- stevage 1y ago
  I don't find there is much network effect for one on one messaging. I have to use a few different apps to talk to all my friends, it's not a big deal to switch to/from Signal or Whatsapp. With groups it's more effort.
  - tiluha 1y ago
    This does not match my experience in Germany. If somebody gives you their phone number it is just expected that you can reach them on WhatsApp and i have yet to meet anyone that doesn't use WhatsApp.
    - standardUser 1y ago
      That seems true throughout the most of the Western world, excluding the US. I have a big WhatsApp network, but that's by virtue of living in SF and NY. Without big immigrant/expat/world-traveler communities, I think most of the US just uses iMessage or regular text.
    - stevage 1y ago
      Yeah, it's true that almost everyone has WhatsApp, but that doesn't by itself create a network effect. Do people refuse to use other platforms?
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  It's a problem but not insurmountable. Otherwise we'd all still be using ICQ/AIM/MSN Messenger/Skype/etc.
  - blitzar 1y ago
    We are off those because of multi messanger platforms made switching to the "hot new thing" very low friction. It was only once mobile came along that the playing field narrowed so much. Current networks have way more lock in than back in the day.
jahnu 1y ago
Signal have a few things that make it a hard sell. It's really hard to clean up media. You have to go into every single chat and from there go about deleting stuff. At least they finally added a "select all" option in there recently. So the size of it just grows and grows and grows until it's using all the space on your phone. Not a good fit for non-technical types. Secondly, no web view. There is the desktop app yes, which is flaky, slow and wants to update every day or two. I just can't see average people putting up with those inconveniences and that's just a couple of them.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  > So the size of it just grows and grows and grows until it's using all the space on your phone. Not a good fit for non-technical types. To be fair I've met plenty of non-techie types whose phones were "full" of stuff from WhatsApp or photos that had already been backed up, because the idea they could clear their local storage would never cross their minds. I've seen people buy new phones instead of clearing their cache.
  - jahnu 1y ago
    Yes it's also a problem there but WhatsApp gives you the tools to fix the problem in minutes if not seconds, or ask your tech literate relative or friend to help and it only takes them the couple of minutes to clear it and maybe show you how. With Signal it can take hours of work so what happens is the non-techy person understands "oh this app filled my phone up I shouldn't use it".
- MrDOS 1y ago
  I stopped recommending Signal to nontechnical folks due to the inability to back up messages on iOS. People are pretty protective of their message history, and having everything tied to a single device with no recourse for backups is a nonstarter. The slightly longer version of the story is that my wife, travelling alone, had some trouble with an iPhone update (it hung for hours), and so she took it to the nearest Genius Bar; they eventually got the update to apply, but then did a factory reset “just to be safe”. Of course, everything except her Signal message history was restored from the automatic iCloud backups. She was devastated, and refuses to touch it now. Please do not reply to say this was the fault of the Apple Store employee. It was, but at the same time, it also very much wasn't.
add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
Discerning people will already seek out other options on their own, the vast majority won't. We know the pattern from the respective Reddit and Twitter enshittification phases.
- bondarchuk 1y ago
  If I can only message with discerning people might as well not have any messaging app at all.
nsagent 1y ago
I used to use Signal exclusively rather than Whatsapp, but I've had lots of issues sending media. This has not been a problem with Whatsapp, so I've recently begun to use Whatsapp more. There are also issues with message history that I've encountered on Signal that don't exist on Whatsapp. If Signal could address these concerns I'd be happy to move away from Whatsapp. With this news I'll likely need to reassess my use of Whatsapp again.
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago
  WhatsApp’s desktop app is also a good deal better. Signal is very mobile-centric which I’m sure makes sense for a lot of people, but I’m sitting in front of a real keyboard for most of my days and so it’s a nice when desktop clients are first-class citizens and not afterthoughts. It’s frustrating that it’s basically only Telegram and WhatsApp that take desktop platforms seriously.
eviks 1y ago
Where you can't even do message backups properly, and risk of losing messages is a much bigger issue for the average issue than ubiquitous ads becoming slightly more ubiquitous

WhatsApp has long promoted itself as a safe alternative to apps like Telegram and Google’s Android messaging. Users flocked to the app globally, finding it a cheap and secure alternative to texting, particularly people in unstable political climates and authoritarian countries, since its messages cannot be easily intercepted without access to personal devices.

angry_octet 1y ago
This reply screams LLM. Not really responding to the parent comment, nauseatingly anodyne in content. Not wrong, but not right. Will HN be overwhelmed with LLM trash?
- add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
  With all the LLM enthusiasts here why would HN not be at the forefront of it?
- gloxkiqcza 1y ago
  It’s a quote from the linked article.
  - angry_octet 1y ago
    But why reply with a snippet like that? Just a normal non-sequitur, or a machine regurgitation?
- eviks 1y ago
  Your llm detector needs serious calibration

laurent123456 1y ago

As always network effect will be the problem. I know plenty of people on WhatsApp and almost nobody on Signal

stevage 1y ago
I don't find there is much network effect for one on one messaging. I have to use a few different apps to talk to all my friends, it's not a big deal to switch to/from Signal or Whatsapp. With groups it's more effort.
- tiluha 1y ago
  This does not match my experience in Germany. If somebody gives you their phone number it is just expected that you can reach them on WhatsApp and i have yet to meet anyone that doesn't use WhatsApp.
  - standardUser 1y ago
    That seems true throughout the most of the Western world, excluding the US. I have a big WhatsApp network, but that's by virtue of living in SF and NY. Without big immigrant/expat/world-traveler communities, I think most of the US just uses iMessage or regular text.
  - stevage 1y ago
    Yeah, it's true that almost everyone has WhatsApp, but that doesn't by itself create a network effect. Do people refuse to use other platforms?
AlexandrB 1y ago
It's a problem but not insurmountable. Otherwise we'd all still be using ICQ/AIM/MSN Messenger/Skype/etc.
- blitzar 1y ago
  We are off those because of multi messanger platforms made switching to the "hot new thing" very low friction. It was only once mobile came along that the playing field narrowed so much. Current networks have way more lock in than back in the day.

jahnu 1y ago

Signal have a few things that make it a hard sell. It's really hard to clean up media. You have to go into every single chat and from there go about deleting stuff. At least they finally added a "select all" option in there recently. So the size of it just grows and grows and grows until it's using all the space on your phone. Not a good fit for non-technical types. Secondly, no web view. There is the desktop app yes, which is flaky, slow and wants to update every day or two. I just can't see average people putting up with those inconveniences and that's just a couple of them.

AlecSchueler 1y ago
> So the size of it just grows and grows and grows until it's using all the space on your phone. Not a good fit for non-technical types. To be fair I've met plenty of non-techie types whose phones were "full" of stuff from WhatsApp or photos that had already been backed up, because the idea they could clear their local storage would never cross their minds. I've seen people buy new phones instead of clearing their cache.
- jahnu 1y ago
  Yes it's also a problem there but WhatsApp gives you the tools to fix the problem in minutes if not seconds, or ask your tech literate relative or friend to help and it only takes them the couple of minutes to clear it and maybe show you how. With Signal it can take hours of work so what happens is the non-techy person understands "oh this app filled my phone up I shouldn't use it".
MrDOS 1y ago
I stopped recommending Signal to nontechnical folks due to the inability to back up messages on iOS. People are pretty protective of their message history, and having everything tied to a single device with no recourse for backups is a nonstarter. The slightly longer version of the story is that my wife, travelling alone, had some trouble with an iPhone update (it hung for hours), and so she took it to the nearest Genius Bar; they eventually got the update to apply, but then did a factory reset “just to be safe”. Of course, everything except her Signal message history was restored from the automatic iCloud backups. She was devastated, and refuses to touch it now. Please do not reply to say this was the fault of the Apple Store employee. It was, but at the same time, it also very much wasn't.

add-sub-mul-div 1y ago

Discerning people will already seek out other options on their own, the vast majority won't. We know the pattern from the respective Reddit and Twitter enshittification phases.

bondarchuk 1y ago
If I can only message with discerning people might as well not have any messaging app at all.

nsagent 1y ago

I used to use Signal exclusively rather than Whatsapp, but I've had lots of issues sending media. This has not been a problem with Whatsapp, so I've recently begun to use Whatsapp more. There are also issues with message history that I've encountered on Signal that don't exist on Whatsapp. If Signal could address these concerns I'd be happy to move away from Whatsapp. With this news I'll likely need to reassess my use of Whatsapp again.

cosmic_cheese 1y ago
WhatsApp’s desktop app is also a good deal better. Signal is very mobile-centric which I’m sure makes sense for a lot of people, but I’m sitting in front of a real keyboard for most of my days and so it’s a nice when desktop clients are first-class citizens and not afterthoughts. It’s frustrating that it’s basically only Telegram and WhatsApp that take desktop platforms seriously.

eviks 1y ago

Where you can't even do message backups properly, and risk of losing messages is a much bigger issue for the average issue than ubiquitous ads becoming slightly more ubiquitous