4 ms·

Alternatively, we could treat fellow sentient beings with a bit of empathy and respect and not cram thousands of them into an artificial environment. Then we wo

Alternatively, we could treat fellow sentient beings with a bit of empathy and respect and not cram thousands of them into an artificial environment. Then we wouldn't have to cram them full of antibiotics, cut their beaks off and make them wear 'cute' glasses.

KetoManx64 1y ago
Don't buy eggs/chickens from companies that treat them like that. Buy from local farms or eggs labeled as pasture raised while grocery shopping. You're not supporting the awful conditions and also getting eggs that have more nutrition content/egg.
- goda90 1y ago
  Maybe there's a negative I'm not aware of, but I personally look for pasture raised eggs that are certified by this organization: https://certifiedhumane.org/ https://certifiedhumane.org/ I can often find them for only $2 more a dozen than the cheapest option.
jedimastert 1y ago
I love humanely and ethically raised chickens, but let's not pretend they aren't dumb as rocks. The happiest chickens in the world with all the pasture and food in the world will still fight each other for no other reason than "because". Admittedly a lot less but still happens
- BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
  It’s not a refutation though. Dumb doesn’t seem to preclude suffering in humans; I’d assume chickens can still have a bad time.
- hermitcrab 1y ago
  We don't live in a perfect world, and we never will. But that isn't a good excuse not to try to do better.
munchler 1y ago
Agreed, but the logical conclusion of that line of thought is veganism, which, ironically, would mean the extinction of farmed chickens entirely. (And I think most ethical vegans would be OK with that.)
- hermitcrab 1y ago
  I don't think so. You could simply mandate more space per chicken, access to natural light and other improvements. It would make chicken and eggs more expensive. But I am ok with that.
  - munchler 1y ago
    I don't think there's any version of factory farming that's consistent with your stated desire to treat chickens with empathy and respect. We'd have to revert to being an agrarian society.
    - hermitcrab 1y ago
      There is a whole continuum between massive intensive factory farming and boutique organic farms.
- collingreen 1y ago
  This is an interesting comment! There are a few implications tucked together here that made me think. Forgive me if I'm missing your intent(s) but the way I'm reading your comment it seems to be implying "the logical conclusion of that line of thinking is a worse situation so the logic is wrong or should be ignored". Which implies that not being extinct is the most important thing even if life is completely suffering. (It also implies a false dichotomy where the only two options are the horrible suffering of modern factory farming or extinction, with no options in between.) I have an earnest question about your opinion, without casting any judgement or gotchas about any real world complicated situations: In a hypothetical world where horrible factory farming is the only possible life for these chickens (the ONLY alternative is extinction) do you think it is worse to keep the system going than letting them go extinct? I think that's the intent in your comment and, if so, would you mind sharing a bit more about why you think that?
ErigmolCt 1y ago
Industrial farming often feels like it's trying to engineer around the symptoms of a problem it refuses to solve at the root

KetoManx64 1y ago

Don't buy eggs/chickens from companies that treat them like that. Buy from local farms or eggs labeled as pasture raised while grocery shopping. You're not supporting the awful conditions and also getting eggs that have more nutrition content/egg.

goda90 1y ago
Maybe there's a negative I'm not aware of, but I personally look for pasture raised eggs that are certified by this organization: https://certifiedhumane.org/ https://certifiedhumane.org/ I can often find them for only $2 more a dozen than the cheapest option.

jedimastert 1y ago

I love humanely and ethically raised chickens, but let's not pretend they aren't dumb as rocks. The happiest chickens in the world with all the pasture and food in the world will still fight each other for no other reason than "because". Admittedly a lot less but still happens

BriggyDwiggs42 1y ago
It’s not a refutation though. Dumb doesn’t seem to preclude suffering in humans; I’d assume chickens can still have a bad time.
hermitcrab 1y ago
We don't live in a perfect world, and we never will. But that isn't a good excuse not to try to do better.

munchler 1y ago

Agreed, but the logical conclusion of that line of thought is veganism, which, ironically, would mean the extinction of farmed chickens entirely. (And I think most ethical vegans would be OK with that.)

hermitcrab 1y ago
I don't think so. You could simply mandate more space per chicken, access to natural light and other improvements. It would make chicken and eggs more expensive. But I am ok with that.
- munchler 1y ago
  I don't think there's any version of factory farming that's consistent with your stated desire to treat chickens with empathy and respect. We'd have to revert to being an agrarian society.
  - hermitcrab 1y ago
    There is a whole continuum between massive intensive factory farming and boutique organic farms.
collingreen 1y ago
This is an interesting comment! There are a few implications tucked together here that made me think. Forgive me if I'm missing your intent(s) but the way I'm reading your comment it seems to be implying "the logical conclusion of that line of thinking is a worse situation so the logic is wrong or should be ignored". Which implies that not being extinct is the most important thing even if life is completely suffering. (It also implies a false dichotomy where the only two options are the horrible suffering of modern factory farming or extinction, with no options in between.) I have an earnest question about your opinion, without casting any judgement or gotchas about any real world complicated situations: In a hypothetical world where horrible factory farming is the only possible life for these chickens (the ONLY alternative is extinction) do you think it is worse to keep the system going than letting them go extinct? I think that's the intent in your comment and, if so, would you mind sharing a bit more about why you think that?

ErigmolCt 1y ago

Industrial farming often feels like it's trying to engineer around the symptoms of a problem it refuses to solve at the root