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What's your definition of fascist and what is your argument that Meloni's party is fascist? I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you -- genuinely curious about
by School-Cotton 1y ago
What's your definition of fascist and what is your argument that Meloni's party is fascist?
I'm not arguing or disagreeing with you -- genuinely curious about your perspective.
The most damning bit in her Wikipedia article is this: "In 1992 Meloni joined the Youth Front, the youth wing of the Italian Social Movement (MSI), a neo-fascist political party founded in 1946 by followers of Italian fascism. She later became the national leader of Student Action, the student movement of the National Alliance (AN), a post-fascist party that became the MSI's legal successor in 1995 and moved towards national conservatism."
But that does not necessarily mean she is herself a fascist, but rather that she was a member of various organizations that were originally founded by fascists then later moderated (roughly similar to the French FN/RN).
On the other hand, lots of people you could fairly describe as fascist or far-right claim to not be so, so it's possible she genuinely is and the moderate turn of these parties is a sham. As someone who doesn't follow Italian politics I have no way of knowing which is the case.
- forgotTheLast 1y ago> various organizations that were originally founded by fascists then later moderated (roughly similar to the French FN/RN). The reason those journalists were targeted is because they infiltrated one of those organizations and found that they were in fact still very much fascist behind closed doors (or at the very least racist and antisemitic).
- orwin 1y agoRacist doesn't mean fascist, but you can't be fascist without being racist. As long as the executive doesn't control the judges, or insist on carrying a two speed justice, you can't really be fascist country. Ergo a fascist party is one which is at least nationalist, if not ethnonationalist, and insist on curbing the rule of law : X should be less equal than Y in front of the law (assuming the same social class).
- ipaddr 1y agoYou can be fascist without being racists. Not all countries contain only one genetic population.
- senderista 1y agoSeconded. I remember a self-described “civic fascist” on Quora who explicitly disavowed racism. Mussolini’s regime wasn’t particularly racist except when it came to their African colonies (he thought antisemitism was dumb until Hitler forced him to adopt Nazi-like racial laws).
- School-Cotton 1y agoRacist and antisemitic are not the same thing as fascist (all three are awful, of course). Though racism is usually part of fascism, there are lots of other elements of fascism too. According to Wikipedia: "It is characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy." Most of these elements are not directly related to antisemitism or racism.
- lurk2 1y ago> But that does not necessarily mean she is herself a fascist, but rather that she was a member of various organizations that were originally founded by fascists then later moderated (roughly similar to the French FN/RN). Inane.
- School-Cotton 1y agoWhy?
- snickerdoodle12 1y agoIt's just like how joining the hitler youth makes you a nazi
- mensetmanusman 1y agoIt’s not a productive label when used like that though.
- kennywinker 1y agoIs it not? If someone is raised catholic it’s best to assume they’re still catholic unless they disavow catholicism - in which case they are an ex-catholic
- bobmcnamara 1y agoSound like you might be an a-stamp-collector.
- kennywinker 1y agoLol. Don’t mix up your sock puppet accounts there bud ;P
- bobmcnamara 1y ago
- spookie 1y agoFrance's RN appears moderated. They are financed by Putin, my friend [1]. Meloni's coalition party also has ties with Russia [2]. [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pen-plays-down-her-ties-with-russia-before-second-round/ https://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pen-plays-down-her... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/12/matteo-salvini-defends-himself-over-plans-for-russian-funded-moscow-trip https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/12/matteo-salvini...
- the_why_of_y 1y agoTo expand a bit, Matteo Salivni is the leader of Lega (formerly Lega Nord), the other far-right party in Italy's government. Salvini's ties to Russia of course go way beyond a couple Aeroflot tickets: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertonardelli/salvini-russia-oil-deal-secret-recording https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertonardelli/salvini...