5 ms·

Google is one of two monopolists. Weird to defend them here.

bitpush 1y ago
I'm not defending them here? I'm saying we need to be specific in our criticism, which Graphene didnt do in their claim.
- Zigurd 1y ago
  What would be unspecific about slagging another project claiming to be open source where their build target is trust me, bro.
ChadNauseam 1y ago
https://open.substack.com/pub/astralcodexten/p/if-its-worth-your-time-to-lie-its?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=6pt4n https://open.substack.com/pub/astralcodexten/p/if-its-worth-...
- bitpush 1y ago
  > If It's Worth Your Time To Lie, It's Worth My Time To Correct It Amazing. Thanks for sharing.
- Spivak 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - J_McQuade 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
    > If this was on my 2025 bingo card I think we could have crossed it off a few times with ICE detention facilities and the prison in El Salvador. Isn't this the motte and bailey thing though? "Putting minorities in camps" has the implication that they're being put into camps because they're minorities. It's meant to invoke the thing the 20th century fascists did where if you're a member of the group you go to the camps, and moreover if you go to the camps you never come back. Meanwhile ICE is detaining people because they're suspected of being in the country illegally, and then deporting them. They suck at it, as usual, so some of the people aren't actually in the country illegally, but most of them are, and then when the government screws up the courts slowly get around to sorting it out. Which is a process that has maybe been in need of reform for quite a while now -- in particular it would be nice to see the government paying for its mistakes more often, and for the "unscrew this up" process to take less time -- but those aren't novelties only now being introduced, they're longstanding problems.
    - const_cast 1y ago
      > "Putting minorities in camps" has the implication that they're being put into camps because they're minorities. Right, and how do you do this and get away with it? In every single circumstance in history, how was this done? You accuse them of some crime, skip the "prove they did it" part, and then put them somewhere where they can never contact anyone ever again. Okay - now what is the Trump administration and ICE doing? Because, to me, it sounds a lot like that. Now, I will admit - there's some plausible deniability here. You're correct that ICE is ass and they make mistakes. What, I think, takes it over the edge is the hostile and adversarial approach of the Trump administration. The DOJ has refused to comply with some orders (lawful orders!) and the administration has doubled-down when they've made mistakes. Trump has even joked about having the power to bring back people from El Salvador, but choosing not to use that power. When you accuse random people of being part of MS-13 and just kind of shrug when courts say "no, bring that guy back" it gives the impression that you're intentionally trying to ruin people's lives. There's tolerance for mistakes built into the mind's of Americans, but when mistakes are constantly underplayed, rug-swept, or outright lied about, we all get a little nervous. If the Trump Administration wasn't so hell-bent on burning as much good will as possible, we wouldn't be having this conversation on if people are being disappeared.
      - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
        > You accuse them of some crime, skip the "prove they did it" part, and then put them somewhere where they can never contact anyone ever again. And then the US courts tell you that you can't actually do that. > The DOJ has refused to comply with some orders (lawful orders!) and the administration has doubled-down when they've made mistakes. Yeah, they're schmucks. They make some argument where the plane is already outside of the US and claim that's outside the court's jurisdiction, and then some appellate court has to decide if that argument is BS or not. But here's the thing that doesn't happen in Nazi Germany: If the appellate court decides that argument is BS, those government officials can be subject to criminal penalties. Especially if they continue to do it even after the court has ruled against them. > Trump has even joked about having the power to bring back people from El Salvador, but choosing not to use that power. That one's actually a hard problem. One of the things that is pretty clear is that US courts don't have jurisdiction over El Salvador. So what happens if the person is already there and El Salvador is refusing to release them? Does Trump actually have the power to bring them back? Are the US courts going to order the US to send Marines into a foreign country to extricate this person? What are they even supposed to do at that point?
  - ChadNauseam 1y ago
    You misquoted the author. What he said was: > then eventually we escalate all the way to the point we actually escalated to, where people have said in all seriousness that Trump might try to put minorities in camps *and murder them*. I think the author is fair to say that that's an exaggeration of what most people suggested Trump would do.
- pkulak 1y ago
  Bold move using a post about absolute factual correctness in all situations to defend the current US administration.
  - ChadNauseam 1y ago
    The point is that you should try to be factually correct without worrying about what it means you're defending. (Well, you don't have to if you don't want to, but it's at least a reasonable way for someone to behave.)
pipes 1y ago
So hypothetical if Google are in the right, no one should defend them because of their monopoly / duopoly status?
- rgreek42 1y ago
  Classic HN contrarian take here

I'm not defending them here? I'm saying we need to be specific in our criticism, which Graphene didnt do in their claim.

Zigurd 1y ago
What would be unspecific about slagging another project claiming to be open source where their build target is trust me, bro.

ChadNauseam 1y ago

https://open.substack.com/pub/astralcodexten/p/if-its-worth-your-time-to-lie-its?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=6pt4n https://open.substack.com/pub/astralcodexten/p/if-its-worth-...

bitpush 1y ago
> If It's Worth Your Time To Lie, It's Worth My Time To Correct It Amazing. Thanks for sharing.
Spivak 1y ago
[flagged]
- J_McQuade 1y ago
  [flagged]
- AnthonyMouse 1y ago
  > If this was on my 2025 bingo card I think we could have crossed it off a few times with ICE detention facilities and the prison in El Salvador. Isn't this the motte and bailey thing though? "Putting minorities in camps" has the implication that they're being put into camps because they're minorities. It's meant to invoke the thing the 20th century fascists did where if you're a member of the group you go to the camps, and moreover if you go to the camps you never come back. Meanwhile ICE is detaining people because they're suspected of being in the country illegally, and then deporting them. They suck at it, as usual, so some of the people aren't actually in the country illegally, but most of them are, and then when the government screws up the courts slowly get around to sorting it out. Which is a process that has maybe been in need of reform for quite a while now -- in particular it would be nice to see the government paying for its mistakes more often, and for the "unscrew this up" process to take less time -- but those aren't novelties only now being introduced, they're longstanding problems.
  - const_cast 1y ago
    > "Putting minorities in camps" has the implication that they're being put into camps because they're minorities. Right, and how do you do this and get away with it? In every single circumstance in history, how was this done? You accuse them of some crime, skip the "prove they did it" part, and then put them somewhere where they can never contact anyone ever again. Okay - now what is the Trump administration and ICE doing? Because, to me, it sounds a lot like that. Now, I will admit - there's some plausible deniability here. You're correct that ICE is ass and they make mistakes. What, I think, takes it over the edge is the hostile and adversarial approach of the Trump administration. The DOJ has refused to comply with some orders (lawful orders!) and the administration has doubled-down when they've made mistakes. Trump has even joked about having the power to bring back people from El Salvador, but choosing not to use that power. When you accuse random people of being part of MS-13 and just kind of shrug when courts say "no, bring that guy back" it gives the impression that you're intentionally trying to ruin people's lives. There's tolerance for mistakes built into the mind's of Americans, but when mistakes are constantly underplayed, rug-swept, or outright lied about, we all get a little nervous. If the Trump Administration wasn't so hell-bent on burning as much good will as possible, we wouldn't be having this conversation on if people are being disappeared.
    - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
      > You accuse them of some crime, skip the "prove they did it" part, and then put them somewhere where they can never contact anyone ever again. And then the US courts tell you that you can't actually do that. > The DOJ has refused to comply with some orders (lawful orders!) and the administration has doubled-down when they've made mistakes. Yeah, they're schmucks. They make some argument where the plane is already outside of the US and claim that's outside the court's jurisdiction, and then some appellate court has to decide if that argument is BS or not. But here's the thing that doesn't happen in Nazi Germany: If the appellate court decides that argument is BS, those government officials can be subject to criminal penalties. Especially if they continue to do it even after the court has ruled against them. > Trump has even joked about having the power to bring back people from El Salvador, but choosing not to use that power. That one's actually a hard problem. One of the things that is pretty clear is that US courts don't have jurisdiction over El Salvador. So what happens if the person is already there and El Salvador is refusing to release them? Does Trump actually have the power to bring them back? Are the US courts going to order the US to send Marines into a foreign country to extricate this person? What are they even supposed to do at that point?
- ChadNauseam 1y ago
  You misquoted the author. What he said was: > then eventually we escalate all the way to the point we actually escalated to, where people have said in all seriousness that Trump might try to put minorities in camps *and murder them*. I think the author is fair to say that that's an exaggeration of what most people suggested Trump would do.
pkulak 1y ago
Bold move using a post about absolute factual correctness in all situations to defend the current US administration.
- ChadNauseam 1y ago
  The point is that you should try to be factually correct without worrying about what it means you're defending. (Well, you don't have to if you don't want to, but it's at least a reasonable way for someone to behave.)

pipes 1y ago

So hypothetical if Google are in the right, no one should defend them because of their monopoly / duopoly status?

rgreek42 1y ago
Classic HN contrarian take here