5 ms·

It is the art of the deal with Trump and I would say that he is a narcissist rather than authoritarian. Trump has a massive ego and I would have expected him t

It is the art of the deal with Trump and I would say that he is a narcissist rather than authoritarian. Trump has a massive ego and I would have expected him to want the biggest rockets, and to pain them gold. If he did then I would denounce him for spending money on space when America has trillions of debt. I don't disagree with him on everything he says just because he said it. So, with space, my honest take is that it was all just a Cold War thing all along. The space race never was about science and exploration, it was always about rocketry for making more devastating missiles. Sure, Voyager went somewhere, but it was all a cover. It seems to me that China and India are doing space science things now. They can get on with it. We are never going to Mars or the moon to live, earth is our home, and always will be.

api 1y ago
Narcissism is actually, in a sense, a very small ego, an enormously fragile sense of self that requires constant validation from outside. It looks a lot like an addiction, with withdrawal occurring when the 'fix' is not obtained. You can see this clearly in certain individuals with obvious narcissistic personality disorder where withdrawal of approval results in an insanely irrational tantrum where they basically revert to toddler-level psychology. If you're like "wait, is this a grown man/woman?" the answer is yes -- but it's one having a "drug" withdrawal fit. Unfortunately this often makes narcissists very successful at social climbing. They're hyper-motivated to advance because that's how you get the next fix.
- hyperman1 1y ago
  I've never seen this behaviour trough that lens. Thanks, you've made me learn something unexpected today.
  - api 1y ago
    It's generally understood that way in psychology. The term "narcissistic supply" is used for the constant approval and praise and adulation that narcissists crave, and the symptoms of its revocation are similar to some forms of drug withdrawal. A narcissist who is confronted or even just cut off will often fly into a blind rage or revert to what seems like an early childhood state of mind and throw tantrums. There's some evidence that neglectful or abusive parenting during certain developmental phases might predispose one to it, basically creating a very deep emotional imprint of "you aren't good enough and must constantly earn love." There's probably more to it than that but I could see that being a factor. For adults there's probably also an ideology / belief system dimension.
davidw 1y ago
If you read about Maduro wanting to imprison the leader of a region of Venezuela, who belongs to the opposition party, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read that the Secretary of Defense of Turkey declined to commit to obeying court orders, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read about Viktor Orban sending actual troops rather than police to a city because of a flimsy pretext, you'd call it authoritarianism. It's happening here, and it's real. It isn't consolidated yet, but it's pretty obviously what they want.
- xedrac 1y ago
  You're ignoring the massive elephant in the room. The previous administration let millions and millions of completely unvetted and undocumented immigrants into our county, creating an unprecedented crisis. I view Trump's actions as reclaiming our country from the brink. All of the instances you mentioned are simply fallout from the crises Trump was handed, and it astonishes me how liberals cannot see this simple fact.
  - martythemaniak 1y ago
    > creating an unprecedented crisis Nope, that's just your brain on right wing propaganda. Nothing of the sort has happened to justify throwing away the rule of law as this administration is doing. It is like murdering someone because you're annoyed that they chew with their mouth open, just an absolutely, wildly disproportionate response to what has happened. Coincidentally (to riff on the GP) it is almost word-for-word the propaganda Orban used in the mid 2010s to consolidate his authoritarian rule of Hungary.
  - angrysaki 1y ago
    What are the symptoms of this "unprecedented crisis" and what makes it a crisis?
    - marcusverus 1y ago
      Chicago spent $300 Million on freebies for migrants.[0] The mayor of NYC saying that the migrant crisis "will destroy New York City".[1] 1/3 of polled schools said that the influx of ESL migrant children had had a "significant" impact on their school districts, taking resources and attention away from American schoolkids.[2] 77% of Americans considered the border situation to be either a "Crisis" or a "Major Problem"[3] [0] https://apnews.com/article/chicago-migrants-black-latino-biden-immigration-ab8d7f22eea423d86fb350665b9e66f6 https://apnews.com/article/chicago-migrants-black-latino-bid... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/nyregion/adams-migrants-destroy-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/nyregion/adams-migrants-d... [2] https://www.reuters.com/investigations/an-american-education-classrooms-reshaped-by-record-migrant-arrivals-2024-10-05/ https://www.reuters.com/investigations/an-american-education... [4] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-americans-view-the-situation-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-its-causes-and-consequences/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-american...
jplusequalt 1y ago
I'm really not sure what you're arguing here? Are you arguing that the Cold War being the driver of our investment into space invalidates further attempts to explore it? Also, as per the debt, NASA's is a fraction of the military budget, and the current budget proposal would increase the debt further, so any argument for decreasing science funding in the name of fiscal responsibility rings hollow.
simpaticoder 1y ago
>Trump has a massive ego and I would have expected him to want the biggest rockets, and to pain them gold. Sure, but he has to weigh the cost of funding intellectual elites against the benefit of what they can make for him. His base wants smaller government and doesn't want intellectuals. So, the move is to defund NASA and fund a military parade on his birthday. This undermines the future, but the future past 3.5 years is not his problem.
JKCalhoun 1y ago
My sense is Trump simply doesn't see the benefit to him. A pretty simple lens to see the world through.
jmull 1y ago
> he is a narcissist rather than authoritarian Surely you understand that narcissism doesn’t somehow exclude authoritarianism? Rather the opposite, right?
timeon 1y ago
He is not that relevant here because he is senile at this point. "Authoritarian" is what is made by people around him.
- Nevermark 1y ago
  You mean the unqualified people he specifically put in place because they are malleable toward operating like he wants them to, expendable if they don’t? Senile or not, he is most definitely in charge of the chaos.
mindslight 1y ago
You are rambling around in circles to avoid the plain truth in front of you. Trump is an autocratic authoritarian. His being a narcissist contributes to that. The two are not mutually exclusive. > I don't disagree with him on everything he says just because he said it. At this point, doing so is a better strategy than deferring judgement, while even more "shit" continues to "flood the zone". I'm a libertarian, and I gave this guy a benefit of the doubt for far too long. When looked at from a non-partisan view, all of his policies have been somewhere from neutral to bad to terrible for America. Referencing real problems and frustrations, yes. But completely ineffective or even self-defeating for actually helping with those problems. > So, with space, my honest take is that it was all just a Cold War thing all along > It seems to me that China and India are doing space science things now. They can get on with it So you're content to just give up on the current cold war then? Throw in the towel and hand world leadership to China? Why?
awkwardpotato 1y ago
> The space race never was about science and exploration To just blatantly ignore the decades of widely documented science NASA has done or contributed to is wild. I understand it raises your taxes by 0.5%, but really?? NASA is responsible for a significant portion of what we know about space and our neighboring planets, and that's if you ignore the amount of research and discoveries they've made about Earth, the planet that "always will be" our home. Even if you ignore the actual scientific discovers, NASA and the space race are (partially or) directly responsible for inventions that benefit your everyday life. CT Scans, improved insulin pumps, scratch-resistant lenses, baby formula, memory foam, etc. You can find a collection of their contributions to your life here[0], though the page seems broken for me. In 2021, for every dollar we put into NASA, it generated ~$3 in economic value. To say all NASA does is build rockets is just incorrect, NASA's benefit comes from the science they actively do with satellites, telescopes, probes, rovers, etc. > Sure, Voyager went somewhere, but it was all a cover. Past a small "Trajectory Correction Maneuver" thruster (which was fired only in 2017 and then 1980 before that), Voyager 1 isn't a rocket or have any other military impact. I'd happily argue the Voyager program is one of the greats feats of human achievement in history. It's in interstellar space for crying out loud! Frankly, why even call yourself a hacker if you're anti-scientific progress and anti-technology? [0] https://spinoff.nasa.gov/ https://spinoff.nasa.gov/

api 1y ago

Narcissism is actually, in a sense, a very small ego, an enormously fragile sense of self that requires constant validation from outside. It looks a lot like an addiction, with withdrawal occurring when the 'fix' is not obtained. You can see this clearly in certain individuals with obvious narcissistic personality disorder where withdrawal of approval results in an insanely irrational tantrum where they basically revert to toddler-level psychology. If you're like "wait, is this a grown man/woman?" the answer is yes -- but it's one having a "drug" withdrawal fit. Unfortunately this often makes narcissists very successful at social climbing. They're hyper-motivated to advance because that's how you get the next fix.

hyperman1 1y ago
I've never seen this behaviour trough that lens. Thanks, you've made me learn something unexpected today.
- api 1y ago
  It's generally understood that way in psychology. The term "narcissistic supply" is used for the constant approval and praise and adulation that narcissists crave, and the symptoms of its revocation are similar to some forms of drug withdrawal. A narcissist who is confronted or even just cut off will often fly into a blind rage or revert to what seems like an early childhood state of mind and throw tantrums. There's some evidence that neglectful or abusive parenting during certain developmental phases might predispose one to it, basically creating a very deep emotional imprint of "you aren't good enough and must constantly earn love." There's probably more to it than that but I could see that being a factor. For adults there's probably also an ideology / belief system dimension.

davidw 1y ago

If you read about Maduro wanting to imprison the leader of a region of Venezuela, who belongs to the opposition party, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read that the Secretary of Defense of Turkey declined to commit to obeying court orders, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read about Viktor Orban sending actual troops rather than police to a city because of a flimsy pretext, you'd call it authoritarianism. It's happening here, and it's real. It isn't consolidated yet, but it's pretty obviously what they want.

xedrac 1y ago
You're ignoring the massive elephant in the room. The previous administration let millions and millions of completely unvetted and undocumented immigrants into our county, creating an unprecedented crisis. I view Trump's actions as reclaiming our country from the brink. All of the instances you mentioned are simply fallout from the crises Trump was handed, and it astonishes me how liberals cannot see this simple fact.
- martythemaniak 1y ago
  > creating an unprecedented crisis Nope, that's just your brain on right wing propaganda. Nothing of the sort has happened to justify throwing away the rule of law as this administration is doing. It is like murdering someone because you're annoyed that they chew with their mouth open, just an absolutely, wildly disproportionate response to what has happened. Coincidentally (to riff on the GP) it is almost word-for-word the propaganda Orban used in the mid 2010s to consolidate his authoritarian rule of Hungary.
- angrysaki 1y ago
  What are the symptoms of this "unprecedented crisis" and what makes it a crisis?
  - marcusverus 1y ago
    Chicago spent $300 Million on freebies for migrants.[0] The mayor of NYC saying that the migrant crisis "will destroy New York City".[1] 1/3 of polled schools said that the influx of ESL migrant children had had a "significant" impact on their school districts, taking resources and attention away from American schoolkids.[2] 77% of Americans considered the border situation to be either a "Crisis" or a "Major Problem"[3] [0] https://apnews.com/article/chicago-migrants-black-latino-biden-immigration-ab8d7f22eea423d86fb350665b9e66f6 https://apnews.com/article/chicago-migrants-black-latino-bid... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/nyregion/adams-migrants-destroy-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/nyregion/adams-migrants-d... [2] https://www.reuters.com/investigations/an-american-education-classrooms-reshaped-by-record-migrant-arrivals-2024-10-05/ https://www.reuters.com/investigations/an-american-education... [4] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-americans-view-the-situation-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-its-causes-and-consequences/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-american...

jplusequalt 1y ago

I'm really not sure what you're arguing here? Are you arguing that the Cold War being the driver of our investment into space invalidates further attempts to explore it? Also, as per the debt, NASA's is a fraction of the military budget, and the current budget proposal would increase the debt further, so any argument for decreasing science funding in the name of fiscal responsibility rings hollow.

simpaticoder 1y ago

>Trump has a massive ego and I would have expected him to want the biggest rockets, and to pain them gold. Sure, but he has to weigh the cost of funding intellectual elites against the benefit of what they can make for him. His base wants smaller government and doesn't want intellectuals. So, the move is to defund NASA and fund a military parade on his birthday. This undermines the future, but the future past 3.5 years is not his problem.

JKCalhoun 1y ago

My sense is Trump simply doesn't see the benefit to him. A pretty simple lens to see the world through.

jmull 1y ago

> he is a narcissist rather than authoritarian Surely you understand that narcissism doesn’t somehow exclude authoritarianism? Rather the opposite, right?

timeon 1y ago

He is not that relevant here because he is senile at this point. "Authoritarian" is what is made by people around him.

Nevermark 1y ago
You mean the unqualified people he specifically put in place because they are malleable toward operating like he wants them to, expendable if they don’t? Senile or not, he is most definitely in charge of the chaos.

mindslight 1y ago

You are rambling around in circles to avoid the plain truth in front of you. Trump is an autocratic authoritarian. His being a narcissist contributes to that. The two are not mutually exclusive. > I don't disagree with him on everything he says just because he said it. At this point, doing so is a better strategy than deferring judgement, while even more "shit" continues to "flood the zone". I'm a libertarian, and I gave this guy a benefit of the doubt for far too long. When looked at from a non-partisan view, all of his policies have been somewhere from neutral to bad to terrible for America. Referencing real problems and frustrations, yes. But completely ineffective or even self-defeating for actually helping with those problems. > So, with space, my honest take is that it was all just a Cold War thing all along > It seems to me that China and India are doing space science things now. They can get on with it So you're content to just give up on the current cold war then? Throw in the towel and hand world leadership to China? Why?

awkwardpotato 1y ago

> The space race never was about science and exploration To just blatantly ignore the decades of widely documented science NASA has done or contributed to is wild. I understand it raises your taxes by 0.5%, but really?? NASA is responsible for a significant portion of what we know about space and our neighboring planets, and that's if you ignore the amount of research and discoveries they've made about Earth, the planet that "always will be" our home. Even if you ignore the actual scientific discovers, NASA and the space race are (partially or) directly responsible for inventions that benefit your everyday life. CT Scans, improved insulin pumps, scratch-resistant lenses, baby formula, memory foam, etc. You can find a collection of their contributions to your life here[0], though the page seems broken for me. In 2021, for every dollar we put into NASA, it generated ~$3 in economic value. To say all NASA does is build rockets is just incorrect, NASA's benefit comes from the science they actively do with satellites, telescopes, probes, rovers, etc. > Sure, Voyager went somewhere, but it was all a cover. Past a small "Trajectory Correction Maneuver" thruster (which was fired only in 2017 and then 1980 before that), Voyager 1 isn't a rocket or have any other military impact. I'd happily argue the Voyager program is one of the greats feats of human achievement in history. It's in interstellar space for crying out loud! Frankly, why even call yourself a hacker if you're anti-scientific progress and anti-technology? [0] https://spinoff.nasa.gov/ https://spinoff.nasa.gov/