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It's amazing that US and Israel are the only countries mentioned in the headline While the story itself is about Italy spying on a journalist in another EU cou
by breppp 1y ago
It's amazing that US and Israel are the only countries mentioned in the headline
While the story itself is about Italy spying on a journalist in another EU country
But I guess news sites needs them clicks
- linotype 1y ago[flagged]
- Kapura 1y agothe current regime has shown hostility to keeping europe peaceful, what do you want?
- linotype 1y agoHow so? By asking Europe to pay for the defense of Europe?
- thomassmith65 1y agoAlso by floating proposals that the Danish and British cede their stewardship of Greenland and Canada to the USA.
- returningfory2 1y agoCanada is an independent country and not under the stewardship of the British.
- cess11 1y agoCharles III is the king of Canada, which is part of the Commonwealth.
- returningfory2 1y agoThe fact that they share a head of state is irrelevant? If it was relevant, you could equally make the claim that Britain is under the "stewardship" of the Canadians. I think the British would be surprised to hear that!
- thomassmith65 1y agoFine: "Also by floating proposals that the Danish *state* and British *monarch* cede their stewardship of Greenland and Canada to the USA." Yes, one still can be tedius and argue that the Throne's veto over Canadian legislation doesn't qualify as 'stewardship' (since it is supposed to be symbolic) The point of my comment (which I maintain) is that Britain has strong ties with Canada, and so Trump butting in, pushing for Canada to abandon the Commonwealth to become a state, comes across as hostile. Canadians may find the threat more alarming than Britons, but it's welcomed by neither people.
- returningfory2 1y agoCanada the country, being a democracy, is owned by the Canadian people, not the king (just like the United States is owned by the American people, not the president). If Trump encroaches on the sovereignty of Canada it is an affront to the Canadian people. What the British think is of distinctly secondary importance. I'm not sure you see the irony of your stance. You're complaining about the American president butting into Canadian affairs because it infringes on some supposed colonialist rights of an absentee king.
- thomassmith65 1y agoIf Trump encroaches on the sovereignty of Canada it is an affront to the Canadian people. What the British think is of distinctly secondary importance. Yes, and that is consistent with my comment. You're complaining about the American president butting into Canadian affairs because it infringes on some supposed colonialist rights of an absentee king. Well, if Canada has such weak ties to the UK, it might as well be part of America. Heck, just preserve public healthcare, and French language laws... why not? Of course, that is not the case. There are still strong historical, legal, traditional, cultural, and familial ties. This is why PM Carney invited Canada's king to Parliament last month. It was a reminder to Trump that his overtures were not simply an affront to Canada, but also to Britain.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- kennywinker 1y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-communist_mass_killings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-communist_mass_killings Ensuring peace by violently crushing social democratic organizing and unions is like ensuring a fun time by beating anyone who complains. It’s not an anti-US bias to hold the US accountable for their actions. Funding a for-profit spyware company that’ll sell to anyone, including italian fascists, is bad. The US should be held accountable for that.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y agoRegardless, it seems to be helpful to others to point out what one finds worthy of discussion; that is actually the point of the comments, after all.
- Supernaut 1y agoYour comment is extremely disingenuous. Much of the world, including Europe, has become dramatically more unsettled and dangerous as a direct consequence of US foreign policies and military adventures over the last quarter-century. Do you expect to be thanked?
- linotype 1y agoI don’t expect anything from you or anyone else. I’m just glad I don’t have to worry about what other people think anymore. If anything, I wish the US would pull out of NATO altogether and focus on fixing our problems at home, since our contributions clearly aren’t wanted.
- croes 1y agoAttacking countries because of non existent WMDs, torturing people in black sites, sanctioning investigators of the ICC, spying on all internet traffic, enforcing their sanctions on third parties. I think their are reasons for that anti-US bias. And if the US ensured freedom it was because it benefited them. If war would habe been the better option they would habe ensured that.
- Swenrekcah 1y agoPeople want the US to ensure peace. The problem is that the US has in recent months turned away from that and is instead promoting unrest, both home and abroad.
- linotype 1y agoWhat has the US done in recent months to promote unrest abroad?
- Swenrekcah 1y agoReduced support for Ukraine and sympathised with Russia, empowering Putin and increased risk of conflict in Europe. The US has interfered with elections in Europe, supporting far-right movements that are more prone to violence. There are more things but those are most relevant for my area.
- wesselbindt 1y agoGoodness me where oh where could that anti US bias come from? Couldn't be the illegal bombing of Cambodia and Laos during the Vietnam War, couldn't be arming the Guatamalans who carried out the silent Holocaust, couldn't be arming the Turks while they were slaughtering Kurds, couldn't be the illegal invasion of Iraq, killing up to a million people, and torturing others without due process, ultimately leading to violent blowback from Islamic extremists in Europe in the form of terrorist attacks. Couldn't be providing billions of dollars in weapons for Israel to carry out its genocide, likely leading to even more blowback across the globe. No, surely it's because they're _ungrateful_.
- westmeal 1y agoAll of that was for freedoms though /s
- linotype 1y agoYeah I forgot that Europe wasn’t involved in Iraq or Afghanistan.
- wesselbindt 1y agoOh get off it. We all know who pushed for the invasions. We all know who operated the black sites.
- mensetmanusman 1y agoFrance forced the US into Vietnam , the real world is messy.
- wesselbindt 1y ago1. No they didn't, and that's not controversial. Even the most cursory Google search can dispell you of this notion. 2. "The world is messy" does not excuse countless war crimes. Imagine a lawyer in the Nuremberg trials saying "well sure the defendant sent children to the gas chamber, but your honor, have you considered that the world is a messy place?"
- mr90210 1y ago> US contributions to ensuring peace in Europe Name the contributions after 1945.
- slg 1y agoDo they not teach about the Marshall Plan in schools anymore? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- cess11 1y agoIt was a main driver of the initial Cold War and conditioned on policy, basically neutering european sovereignty and pushing Soviet in a similar direction to try and counter this effort. Political and economic dependency is a fallout that is still a problematic issue today, almost forty years after the fall of the USSR. The ongoing war in eastern Europe was pushed for by the US, more or less as a prolongation of the same strategy of US dominance in Europe.
- slg 1y agoIf you can't recognize the 60+ years of relative peace that efforts like the Marshall Plan brought us, I don't know how you can recognize any time period in recorded history as being "peaceful".
- cess11 1y agoIf "relative peace" in the sense that a world war is actually going on is the most peaceful you can imagine, then I don't see much potential in having a conversation with you.
- peppers-ghost 1y agoThat bias is earned, especially over actions the US has committed covertly in Europe over the last 50 years.
- linotype 1y agoSuch as?
- cess11 1y agoBuying off the mafia with a resurrection of the global heroin trade in exchange for them crushing certain popular parties and unions. Joining forces with fascists in Operation Gladio.
- peppers-ghost 1y agohttps://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities.md#europe https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/us_atrocities... Here's some good reading if you're truly interested.
- kennywinker 1y agoHeadlines are written by the publisher not the author. They’re written to maximize readership. The fact that spying happened in italy by italians is mostly only interesting to italians. The fact that the US backs an israeli company that sells spying tools is interesting to many more people. You can see the selling clicks, but because they’re not twisting the truth or saying something misleading - in this case I mostly see getting info to the people who care about it.
- breppp 1y agoHowever, the fact that companies sell offensive cyber warfare software to governments is not new, and that specific company isn't either. There's also nothing inherently wrong with selling intelligence tools to a western government, Italy is not Iran or Zambia. And fighting terror or crime using software is valid. The only thing that surprises me is that a western government might attack journalists, and what I'd like to know from this article was what was their motivation
- kennywinker 1y agoTheir motivation is they are fascists. Like not in an “anything I don’t like is fascism” kinda way - literal fascists. If you’d like to know more about them, an article in the AP isn’t the right place to find more. But it is a good way to let people know what the US is funding in the world.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y agoYour comment is about the US but their question about "motivation" was concerning Italy. As in, why is Italy spying on a journalist in a different EU country?
- kennywinker 1y agoNo my comment is about the italian gov being literal fascists. I wasn’t bothering to comment on the US gov
- dismalaf 1y ago[flagged]
- noworriesnate 1y agoI mean, in a broad sense this is true. But do you really think Sam Altman wouldn’t be in the news if he wasn’t Jewish? What about SBF? Or go back further, do you think people know about Einstein or Karl Marx only because they were Jewish? Like it or not, Jews have been involved at a high level in a lot of pivotal developments in the west.
- yoavm 1y agoI don't think that "No Jews No News" hints that Altman is in the news only because he's Jewish. It means that people care about _bad things_ more when they're done by Jews. The fact that Einstein is Einstein and Marx is Marx is only relevant if you're claiming that the reason people like blaming Jews is due to jealously of their relative success.
- croes 1y agoI don‘t think that is special about jews. Just look at the news after a knife attack or a shooting or assault with a car or rape. The religion and the nationality (of the parents or grandparents) is important to know how it stays relevant in the news. People like it when bad things are done by people who have a characteristic that distinguishes them from themselves. We prefer to think bad things are mostly done by strangers
- yoavm 1y agoThe idea as I understand it (and I'm not expressing personal agreement with it) is that similar things can be done by non-Jews and they will not be newsworthy. For example, Assad murdered around 500k Syrians and yet Google searching for "Genocide Syria" yields 1/4 of the results "Genocide Israel" gives, even though the number of deaths in Gaza is 1/10. Similar story for "Famine Yemen" vs "Famine Gaza". Or the fact that the UN has condemned Israel more times than the rest of the world combined. No Jews No News means that bad things are happening everywhere all the time, but they have higher likelihood of reaching the news if the one to blame is Jewish. In other words it's not about how you phrase the story, it's about which stories are told more than others.
- croes 1y agoMost of the time the country of the creator is named if it’s about spyware. The misuse of such tools outweighs the legitimate use cases, so people want to know who is so reckless to sell these programs
- antithesizer 1y ago[dead]
- breppp 1y agoI don't understand what's the difference if Italy develops its own or buys it from somewhere else. Comparably, phone tapping equipment is being sold world wide for almost a century and is used similarly The fact that some countries that gets these tools starts listening to journalists is concerning, but at least I want to believe it happens less in functioning countries But I don't see any issue with taking remote control of a drug dealer, terrorist or mafia phone
- dylan604 1y agoa functioning country can become dysfunctional with one election
- croes 1y agoSome spyware like Pegasus is notorious. It’s always shady if someone uses it because of its high misuse potential. It’s the computer equivalent of a ABC weapon.
- Xelbair 1y ago>I don't understand what's the difference if Italy develops its own or buys it from somewhere else. because the one who sold it quite likely also gets a hold of all information captured by it's user. Check your other posts for examples of ongoing mass public surveillance programs.
- edanm 1y ago> The misuse of such tools outweighs the legitimate use cases, so people want to know who is so reckless to sell these programs Do you have any evidence of this? Cause my guess is the misuse is the stuff you hear about because it eventually makes the news. But the thousands or millions of legitimate use cases in which it prevented terror attacks or just, y'know, helped solved crimes, are just routine and don't get a mention.
- Romanulus 1y ago[dead]
- pluc 1y agoWhen you hear an art piece was stolen from a museum, do you ever hear about the buyer? No, you hear about where it was, who stole it and where it was found.
- CGMthrowaway 1y agoPer the article there isn't actually any hard evidence that Italy was spying on this journalist. In fact the relevant Italian parliamentary oversight committee (COPASIR) investigated and said while there were activists surveilled by Italy, legally and with government authorization, a journalist (Cancellato) specifically was not.
- tguvot 1y ago[flagged]
- SkiFire13 1y agoHowever at the same time Paragon offered the Italian Intelligence a way to determine whether their software was used against the journalist, but they rejected the offer and that feels very suspicious.
- gausswho 1y agoWhy would COPASIR accept such an offer. Third party forensics shows the fox got in the hen house. You wanna let the fox back in just to confess?
- KennyBlanken 1y agoOh, the irony of the person shrieking about a headline being clickbait, when, had the information been included in title, they'd be shrieking that the title was clickbait for including poorly supported information.
- namuol 1y agoAre arms dealers immune from responsibility, in your view?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- keybored 1y agoThe article itself contains a lot of text about the company. There isn’t much about Italy.
- fortran77 1y ago[flagged]
- budududuroiu 1y agoThe ADL has a HN account?
- hattimaTim 1y ago[flagged]
- fortran77 1y ago[flagged]
- westpfelia 1y agoMy account is way older with way more comments. The USA and Israel are the worlds largest sponsors of terrorism.
- thephyber 1y ago(1) Headlines are necessarily lossy due to the limited character count. (2) It says US-backed, which suggests to me that US investors helped fund it. (3) It says Israeli tech, which rhymes with 2 previous spyware companies which have been torn to shreds in the public media and US courts for their lack of controls/oversight of how their customers used their software (violating the spyware vendor’s policies, the Israeli government export license, and the ToS of the software the spyware software exploited). (4) the US-backed + “targeted a journalist” combined is an attack on the foundation of US as a country (on the assumption that the journalist wasn’t engaging in something like terrorism). I’m bored by people who attack headlines. We all know that they aren’t accurate and can’t be 100% descriptive. And it’s not even clear that you could be appeased by any other formulation of the headline.
- golemiprague 1y ago[dead]
- ashoeafoot 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- arunc 1y agoOr agenda.. Who knows?!