10 ms·

Well, yes, that's the point. Authoritarians want to consolidate power and loot wealth, not improve things or make the world a better place.

by davidw 1y ago

Theodores 1y ago
It is the art of the deal with Trump and I would say that he is a narcissist rather than authoritarian. Trump has a massive ego and I would have expected him to want the biggest rockets, and to pain them gold. If he did then I would denounce him for spending money on space when America has trillions of debt. I don't disagree with him on everything he says just because he said it. So, with space, my honest take is that it was all just a Cold War thing all along. The space race never was about science and exploration, it was always about rocketry for making more devastating missiles. Sure, Voyager went somewhere, but it was all a cover. It seems to me that China and India are doing space science things now. They can get on with it. We are never going to Mars or the moon to live, earth is our home, and always will be.
- api 1y ago
  Narcissism is actually, in a sense, a very small ego, an enormously fragile sense of self that requires constant validation from outside. It looks a lot like an addiction, with withdrawal occurring when the 'fix' is not obtained. You can see this clearly in certain individuals with obvious narcissistic personality disorder where withdrawal of approval results in an insanely irrational tantrum where they basically revert to toddler-level psychology. If you're like "wait, is this a grown man/woman?" the answer is yes -- but it's one having a "drug" withdrawal fit. Unfortunately this often makes narcissists very successful at social climbing. They're hyper-motivated to advance because that's how you get the next fix.
  - hyperman1 1y ago
    I've never seen this behaviour trough that lens. Thanks, you've made me learn something unexpected today.
    - api 1y ago
      It's generally understood that way in psychology. The term "narcissistic supply" is used for the constant approval and praise and adulation that narcissists crave, and the symptoms of its revocation are similar to some forms of drug withdrawal. A narcissist who is confronted or even just cut off will often fly into a blind rage or revert to what seems like an early childhood state of mind and throw tantrums. There's some evidence that neglectful or abusive parenting during certain developmental phases might predispose one to it, basically creating a very deep emotional imprint of "you aren't good enough and must constantly earn love." There's probably more to it than that but I could see that being a factor. For adults there's probably also an ideology / belief system dimension.
- davidw 1y ago
  If you read about Maduro wanting to imprison the leader of a region of Venezuela, who belongs to the opposition party, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read that the Secretary of Defense of Turkey declined to commit to obeying court orders, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read about Viktor Orban sending actual troops rather than police to a city because of a flimsy pretext, you'd call it authoritarianism. It's happening here, and it's real. It isn't consolidated yet, but it's pretty obviously what they want.
  - xedrac 1y ago
    You're ignoring the massive elephant in the room. The previous administration let millions and millions of completely unvetted and undocumented immigrants into our county, creating an unprecedented crisis. I view Trump's actions as reclaiming our country from the brink. All of the instances you mentioned are simply fallout from the crises Trump was handed, and it astonishes me how liberals cannot see this simple fact.
    - martythemaniak 1y ago
      > creating an unprecedented crisis Nope, that's just your brain on right wing propaganda. Nothing of the sort has happened to justify throwing away the rule of law as this administration is doing. It is like murdering someone because you're annoyed that they chew with their mouth open, just an absolutely, wildly disproportionate response to what has happened. Coincidentally (to riff on the GP) it is almost word-for-word the propaganda Orban used in the mid 2010s to consolidate his authoritarian rule of Hungary.
    - angrysaki 1y ago
      What are the symptoms of this "unprecedented crisis" and what makes it a crisis?
      - marcusverus 1y ago
        Chicago spent $300 Million on freebies for migrants.[0] The mayor of NYC saying that the migrant crisis "will destroy New York City".[1] 1/3 of polled schools said that the influx of ESL migrant children had had a "significant" impact on their school districts, taking resources and attention away from American schoolkids.[2] 77% of Americans considered the border situation to be either a "Crisis" or a "Major Problem"[3] [0] https://apnews.com/article/chicago-migrants-black-latino-biden-immigration-ab8d7f22eea423d86fb350665b9e66f6 https://apnews.com/article/chicago-migrants-black-latino-bid... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/nyregion/adams-migrants-destroy-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/nyregion/adams-migrants-d... [2] https://www.reuters.com/investigations/an-american-education-classrooms-reshaped-by-record-migrant-arrivals-2024-10-05/ https://www.reuters.com/investigations/an-american-education... [4] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-americans-view-the-situation-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-its-causes-and-consequences/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-american...
- jplusequalt 1y ago
  I'm really not sure what you're arguing here? Are you arguing that the Cold War being the driver of our investment into space invalidates further attempts to explore it? Also, as per the debt, NASA's is a fraction of the military budget, and the current budget proposal would increase the debt further, so any argument for decreasing science funding in the name of fiscal responsibility rings hollow.
- simpaticoder 1y ago
  >Trump has a massive ego and I would have expected him to want the biggest rockets, and to pain them gold. Sure, but he has to weigh the cost of funding intellectual elites against the benefit of what they can make for him. His base wants smaller government and doesn't want intellectuals. So, the move is to defund NASA and fund a military parade on his birthday. This undermines the future, but the future past 3.5 years is not his problem.
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  My sense is Trump simply doesn't see the benefit to him. A pretty simple lens to see the world through.
- jmull 1y ago
  > he is a narcissist rather than authoritarian Surely you understand that narcissism doesn’t somehow exclude authoritarianism? Rather the opposite, right?
- timeon 1y ago
  He is not that relevant here because he is senile at this point. "Authoritarian" is what is made by people around him.
  - Nevermark 1y ago
    You mean the unqualified people he specifically put in place because they are malleable toward operating like he wants them to, expendable if they don’t? Senile or not, he is most definitely in charge of the chaos.
- mindslight 1y ago
  You are rambling around in circles to avoid the plain truth in front of you. Trump is an autocratic authoritarian. His being a narcissist contributes to that. The two are not mutually exclusive. > I don't disagree with him on everything he says just because he said it. At this point, doing so is a better strategy than deferring judgement, while even more "shit" continues to "flood the zone". I'm a libertarian, and I gave this guy a benefit of the doubt for far too long. When looked at from a non-partisan view, all of his policies have been somewhere from neutral to bad to terrible for America. Referencing real problems and frustrations, yes. But completely ineffective or even self-defeating for actually helping with those problems. > So, with space, my honest take is that it was all just a Cold War thing all along > It seems to me that China and India are doing space science things now. They can get on with it So you're content to just give up on the current cold war then? Throw in the towel and hand world leadership to China? Why?
- awkwardpotato 1y ago
  > The space race never was about science and exploration To just blatantly ignore the decades of widely documented science NASA has done or contributed to is wild. I understand it raises your taxes by 0.5%, but really?? NASA is responsible for a significant portion of what we know about space and our neighboring planets, and that's if you ignore the amount of research and discoveries they've made about Earth, the planet that "always will be" our home. Even if you ignore the actual scientific discovers, NASA and the space race are (partially or) directly responsible for inventions that benefit your everyday life. CT Scans, improved insulin pumps, scratch-resistant lenses, baby formula, memory foam, etc. You can find a collection of their contributions to your life here[0], though the page seems broken for me. In 2021, for every dollar we put into NASA, it generated ~$3 in economic value. To say all NASA does is build rockets is just incorrect, NASA's benefit comes from the science they actively do with satellites, telescopes, probes, rovers, etc. > Sure, Voyager went somewhere, but it was all a cover. Past a small "Trajectory Correction Maneuver" thruster (which was fired only in 2017 and then 1980 before that), Voyager 1 isn't a rocket or have any other military impact. I'd happily argue the Voyager program is one of the greats feats of human achievement in history. It's in interstellar space for crying out loud! Frankly, why even call yourself a hacker if you're anti-scientific progress and anti-technology? [0] https://spinoff.nasa.gov/ https://spinoff.nasa.gov/
refurb 1y ago
You're not supposed to take the Democratic talking points about Trump being a "wannabe dictator" seriously. It's just political mudslinging. I figured that was obvious after Trump and Obama were all buddy-buddy at Carter's funeral. I mean, typically you don't have a friendly relationship with someone you think is ending democracy in your country.
- onlyrealcuzzo 1y ago
  Hitler was buddy buddy with all kinds of people (including most wealthy Jews before the concentration camps). What's your point? You're defacto not a wannabe dictator because you did anything ever that wasn't dictator-y? That seems like a low bar.
- piva00 1y ago
  > You're not supposed to take the Democratic talking points about Trump being a "wannabe dictator" seriously. It's just political mudslinging. I think you should go up this comment thread and read this[0], it's not the words of Trump but the actions his administration take, they are authoritarian, it's clear to most people outside of the USA with a decent education. Cynicism about "political mudslinging" as if these actions are all normal and could be taken by any administration, and would be condemned anyway by their opposing side is exactly the shift in Overton Window which legitimises authoritarian overtakes. Please do read about any authoritarian rise to power in democratic countries in the last 100 years, even better if you read about "competitive authoritarianism" to understand why it might just so be this time is a little different... [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44259953 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44259953
  - cced 1y ago
    > decent education Looks like those dividends are finally starting to pay out.
- rstat1 1y ago
  I take it you're not big on the whole "actions speak louder than words" thing are you?
stronglikedan 1y ago
[flagged]
- popularrecluse 1y ago
  That's some strong shit yer smokin
- greenpizza13 1y ago
  Ya know, deportations without due process is authoritarianism. So is attacking the media and ignoring the courts. I guess the blinders are up cause you love Trump. More power to you, man, but you are in fact the baddie.
  - Whoppertime 1y ago
    The constitution is not a suicide pact. If deporting millions of people without due process is authoritarianism, what is letting in millions of people without due process? Rules for thee but not for me?
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
      > what is letting in millions of people without due process? Nobody is saying this should happen; they are saying that if someone is accused of being in the country illegally then we should investigate that accusation and attempt to arrive at a conclusion that is as close as possible to the truth. Indeed, treating that as optional is authoritarian.
  - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
    Administrative court rulings is due process for immigration... that's the law. Admin court is part of the Executive branch. That's how the law is set up. Comprehensive immigration reform (which is sorely needed) can only come from the Congress (who have no incentive to act because everyone is so focused on the Presidency). Without the laws changing, the only choice is to enforce the laws as they are. Something that has been ignored since Obama (who deported far more than Trump ever has... Obama deported primarily criminals, however, and Trump is deporting anybody he can)
labster 1y ago
Americans want looting and authoritarianism, so that’s what they’re getting. There’s no excuses here after a majority of people voted for Trump’s return, with his repeated promises that he wouldn’t be held back this time around. We got exactly what we voted for — worldwide tariffs, sending the military to round up migrants, a military parade with tanks in DC, antivax boards — all of these things he talked about before election. Everything happening now with the dismantling of science programs and universities is exactly what Americans voted for.
- mostlysimilar 1y ago
  It's not even remotely helpful to keep parroting "this is what Americans wanted." Not only do Trump voters not represent a majority of Americans, the media landscape is so fractured that many people did not know what they were voting for and just wanted cheaper groceries. Is that stupid and naive? Yes. But it's also stupid and naive to generalize and say "Americans want this."
  - Eisenstein 1y ago
    I think what they are saying is 'actions have consequences'.
    - punpunia 1y ago
      Okay great, that is utterly vacuous. Now what?
      - Braxton1980 1y ago
        [flagged]
  - bruce511 1y ago
    I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it. Yes, just under half the voters will say they didn't vote for him. But more people did, and that's how democracy works. After the vote it's easy for people to blame the media, or to claim that he's doing things they didn't vote for. It's easy to just say "I'm not responsible for this". But democracy means the people vote. The winner is the ones with the most votes. If you voted wrong, that's on you, and you need to understand that, and acknowledge it. Only by taking responsibility can you understand the power you wield, and maybe wield it more carefully in the future. And no, none of the things he's found are a surprise. His character is no secret. His approach to politics is no secret. His policies are no secret. His willingness to grift is no secret. A plurality of those who voted chose him. Those that didn't vote decided he deserved half their vote. In truth I don't think it's stupid to say "Americans want this". Moderate Republicans are scared of being primaried. They know what their constituents want. I don't think all Americans want this. But I think a lot of them do. No one is predicting a Blue senate in 2 years. Those red seats are safe. Because deep down a big chunk of America is happy with this. This is the very essence of democracy. A govt of the people, voted by the people. Look at the govt. It's a mirror of the people who got them there, and keep them there. I get this is frustrating if you are a minority voter. Minorities get stomped on by majorities- that's the very core of democracy. So forgive me, but at least for 2 years we need to keep saying it - you voted for this. Because until lots of voters figure out just how responsible they are, they're not going to change. If you voted for this, take some responsibility. Edit: I see you're getting down voted. I disagree either that too. Your point is coherent and a common part of this conversation. Voting here is about conversation, not agreement.
user9999999999 1y ago
> or make the world a better place. Exactly. The past 163 days have only been about hurting people and cutting things down. There's no hopeful or optimistic rhetoric. Its just hate after hate after hate and blame. You cannot build a great country on this. But you most certainly can tear one down.
- jfcnk 1y ago
  As Lincoln said I hope I have god on my side but I must have... Same choice faces everyone but there are no Lincolns around. Its a nation of hustlers, podcasters and youtubers who dont really fight for anything other than views, upvotes and likes.
  - ModernMech 1y ago
    I'm not sure, I think maybe that's the younger generation. But there are amazingly strong people here. I mean, I certainly don't know any podcasters, streamers, or tick tockers. Do you? We do have a problem with celebrity worship in this country, but I think that might be coming to its logical conclusion.

Well, yes, that's the point. Authoritarians want to consolidate power and loot wealth, not improve things or make the world a better place.

by davidw 1y ago

Well, yes, that's the point. Authoritarians want to consolidate power and loot wealth, not improve things or make the world a better place.

Theodores 1y ago

It is the art of the deal with Trump and I would say that he is a narcissist rather than authoritarian. Trump has a massive ego and I would have expected him to want the biggest rockets, and to pain them gold. If he did then I would denounce him for spending money on space when America has trillions of debt. I don't disagree with him on everything he says just because he said it. So, with space, my honest take is that it was all just a Cold War thing all along. The space race never was about science and exploration, it was always about rocketry for making more devastating missiles. Sure, Voyager went somewhere, but it was all a cover. It seems to me that China and India are doing space science things now. They can get on with it. We are never going to Mars or the moon to live, earth is our home, and always will be.

api 1y ago
Narcissism is actually, in a sense, a very small ego, an enormously fragile sense of self that requires constant validation from outside. It looks a lot like an addiction, with withdrawal occurring when the 'fix' is not obtained. You can see this clearly in certain individuals with obvious narcissistic personality disorder where withdrawal of approval results in an insanely irrational tantrum where they basically revert to toddler-level psychology. If you're like "wait, is this a grown man/woman?" the answer is yes -- but it's one having a "drug" withdrawal fit. Unfortunately this often makes narcissists very successful at social climbing. They're hyper-motivated to advance because that's how you get the next fix.
- hyperman1 1y ago
  I've never seen this behaviour trough that lens. Thanks, you've made me learn something unexpected today.
  - api 1y ago
    It's generally understood that way in psychology. The term "narcissistic supply" is used for the constant approval and praise and adulation that narcissists crave, and the symptoms of its revocation are similar to some forms of drug withdrawal. A narcissist who is confronted or even just cut off will often fly into a blind rage or revert to what seems like an early childhood state of mind and throw tantrums. There's some evidence that neglectful or abusive parenting during certain developmental phases might predispose one to it, basically creating a very deep emotional imprint of "you aren't good enough and must constantly earn love." There's probably more to it than that but I could see that being a factor. For adults there's probably also an ideology / belief system dimension.
davidw 1y ago
If you read about Maduro wanting to imprison the leader of a region of Venezuela, who belongs to the opposition party, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read that the Secretary of Defense of Turkey declined to commit to obeying court orders, you'd call it authoritarianism. If you read about Viktor Orban sending actual troops rather than police to a city because of a flimsy pretext, you'd call it authoritarianism. It's happening here, and it's real. It isn't consolidated yet, but it's pretty obviously what they want.
- xedrac 1y ago
  You're ignoring the massive elephant in the room. The previous administration let millions and millions of completely unvetted and undocumented immigrants into our county, creating an unprecedented crisis. I view Trump's actions as reclaiming our country from the brink. All of the instances you mentioned are simply fallout from the crises Trump was handed, and it astonishes me how liberals cannot see this simple fact.
  - martythemaniak 1y ago
    > creating an unprecedented crisis Nope, that's just your brain on right wing propaganda. Nothing of the sort has happened to justify throwing away the rule of law as this administration is doing. It is like murdering someone because you're annoyed that they chew with their mouth open, just an absolutely, wildly disproportionate response to what has happened. Coincidentally (to riff on the GP) it is almost word-for-word the propaganda Orban used in the mid 2010s to consolidate his authoritarian rule of Hungary.
  - angrysaki 1y ago
    What are the symptoms of this "unprecedented crisis" and what makes it a crisis?
    - marcusverus 1y ago
      Chicago spent $300 Million on freebies for migrants.[0] The mayor of NYC saying that the migrant crisis "will destroy New York City".[1] 1/3 of polled schools said that the influx of ESL migrant children had had a "significant" impact on their school districts, taking resources and attention away from American schoolkids.[2] 77% of Americans considered the border situation to be either a "Crisis" or a "Major Problem"[3] [0] https://apnews.com/article/chicago-migrants-black-latino-biden-immigration-ab8d7f22eea423d86fb350665b9e66f6 https://apnews.com/article/chicago-migrants-black-latino-bid... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/nyregion/adams-migrants-destroy-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/nyregion/adams-migrants-d... [2] https://www.reuters.com/investigations/an-american-education-classrooms-reshaped-by-record-migrant-arrivals-2024-10-05/ https://www.reuters.com/investigations/an-american-education... [4] https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-americans-view-the-situation-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-its-causes-and-consequences/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/02/15/how-american...
jplusequalt 1y ago
I'm really not sure what you're arguing here? Are you arguing that the Cold War being the driver of our investment into space invalidates further attempts to explore it? Also, as per the debt, NASA's is a fraction of the military budget, and the current budget proposal would increase the debt further, so any argument for decreasing science funding in the name of fiscal responsibility rings hollow.
simpaticoder 1y ago
>Trump has a massive ego and I would have expected him to want the biggest rockets, and to pain them gold. Sure, but he has to weigh the cost of funding intellectual elites against the benefit of what they can make for him. His base wants smaller government and doesn't want intellectuals. So, the move is to defund NASA and fund a military parade on his birthday. This undermines the future, but the future past 3.5 years is not his problem.
JKCalhoun 1y ago
My sense is Trump simply doesn't see the benefit to him. A pretty simple lens to see the world through.
jmull 1y ago
> he is a narcissist rather than authoritarian Surely you understand that narcissism doesn’t somehow exclude authoritarianism? Rather the opposite, right?
timeon 1y ago
He is not that relevant here because he is senile at this point. "Authoritarian" is what is made by people around him.
- Nevermark 1y ago
  You mean the unqualified people he specifically put in place because they are malleable toward operating like he wants them to, expendable if they don’t? Senile or not, he is most definitely in charge of the chaos.
mindslight 1y ago
You are rambling around in circles to avoid the plain truth in front of you. Trump is an autocratic authoritarian. His being a narcissist contributes to that. The two are not mutually exclusive. > I don't disagree with him on everything he says just because he said it. At this point, doing so is a better strategy than deferring judgement, while even more "shit" continues to "flood the zone". I'm a libertarian, and I gave this guy a benefit of the doubt for far too long. When looked at from a non-partisan view, all of his policies have been somewhere from neutral to bad to terrible for America. Referencing real problems and frustrations, yes. But completely ineffective or even self-defeating for actually helping with those problems. > So, with space, my honest take is that it was all just a Cold War thing all along > It seems to me that China and India are doing space science things now. They can get on with it So you're content to just give up on the current cold war then? Throw in the towel and hand world leadership to China? Why?
awkwardpotato 1y ago
> The space race never was about science and exploration To just blatantly ignore the decades of widely documented science NASA has done or contributed to is wild. I understand it raises your taxes by 0.5%, but really?? NASA is responsible for a significant portion of what we know about space and our neighboring planets, and that's if you ignore the amount of research and discoveries they've made about Earth, the planet that "always will be" our home. Even if you ignore the actual scientific discovers, NASA and the space race are (partially or) directly responsible for inventions that benefit your everyday life. CT Scans, improved insulin pumps, scratch-resistant lenses, baby formula, memory foam, etc. You can find a collection of their contributions to your life here[0], though the page seems broken for me. In 2021, for every dollar we put into NASA, it generated ~$3 in economic value. To say all NASA does is build rockets is just incorrect, NASA's benefit comes from the science they actively do with satellites, telescopes, probes, rovers, etc. > Sure, Voyager went somewhere, but it was all a cover. Past a small "Trajectory Correction Maneuver" thruster (which was fired only in 2017 and then 1980 before that), Voyager 1 isn't a rocket or have any other military impact. I'd happily argue the Voyager program is one of the greats feats of human achievement in history. It's in interstellar space for crying out loud! Frankly, why even call yourself a hacker if you're anti-scientific progress and anti-technology? [0] https://spinoff.nasa.gov/ https://spinoff.nasa.gov/

refurb 1y ago

You're not supposed to take the Democratic talking points about Trump being a "wannabe dictator" seriously. It's just political mudslinging. I figured that was obvious after Trump and Obama were all buddy-buddy at Carter's funeral. I mean, typically you don't have a friendly relationship with someone you think is ending democracy in your country.

onlyrealcuzzo 1y ago
Hitler was buddy buddy with all kinds of people (including most wealthy Jews before the concentration camps). What's your point? You're defacto not a wannabe dictator because you did anything ever that wasn't dictator-y? That seems like a low bar.
piva00 1y ago
> You're not supposed to take the Democratic talking points about Trump being a "wannabe dictator" seriously. It's just political mudslinging. I think you should go up this comment thread and read this[0], it's not the words of Trump but the actions his administration take, they are authoritarian, it's clear to most people outside of the USA with a decent education. Cynicism about "political mudslinging" as if these actions are all normal and could be taken by any administration, and would be condemned anyway by their opposing side is exactly the shift in Overton Window which legitimises authoritarian overtakes. Please do read about any authoritarian rise to power in democratic countries in the last 100 years, even better if you read about "competitive authoritarianism" to understand why it might just so be this time is a little different... [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44259953 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44259953
- cced 1y ago
  > decent education Looks like those dividends are finally starting to pay out.
rstat1 1y ago
I take it you're not big on the whole "actions speak louder than words" thing are you?

stronglikedan 1y ago

[flagged]

popularrecluse 1y ago
That's some strong shit yer smokin
greenpizza13 1y ago
Ya know, deportations without due process is authoritarianism. So is attacking the media and ignoring the courts. I guess the blinders are up cause you love Trump. More power to you, man, but you are in fact the baddie.
- Whoppertime 1y ago
  The constitution is not a suicide pact. If deporting millions of people without due process is authoritarianism, what is letting in millions of people without due process? Rules for thee but not for me?
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
    > what is letting in millions of people without due process? Nobody is saying this should happen; they are saying that if someone is accused of being in the country illegally then we should investigate that accusation and attempt to arrive at a conclusion that is as close as possible to the truth. Indeed, treating that as optional is authoritarian.
- FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
  Administrative court rulings is due process for immigration... that's the law. Admin court is part of the Executive branch. That's how the law is set up. Comprehensive immigration reform (which is sorely needed) can only come from the Congress (who have no incentive to act because everyone is so focused on the Presidency). Without the laws changing, the only choice is to enforce the laws as they are. Something that has been ignored since Obama (who deported far more than Trump ever has... Obama deported primarily criminals, however, and Trump is deporting anybody he can)

labster 1y ago

Americans want looting and authoritarianism, so that’s what they’re getting. There’s no excuses here after a majority of people voted for Trump’s return, with his repeated promises that he wouldn’t be held back this time around. We got exactly what we voted for — worldwide tariffs, sending the military to round up migrants, a military parade with tanks in DC, antivax boards — all of these things he talked about before election. Everything happening now with the dismantling of science programs and universities is exactly what Americans voted for.

mostlysimilar 1y ago
It's not even remotely helpful to keep parroting "this is what Americans wanted." Not only do Trump voters not represent a majority of Americans, the media landscape is so fractured that many people did not know what they were voting for and just wanted cheaper groceries. Is that stupid and naive? Yes. But it's also stupid and naive to generalize and say "Americans want this."
- Eisenstein 1y ago
  I think what they are saying is 'actions have consequences'.
  - punpunia 1y ago
    Okay great, that is utterly vacuous. Now what?
    - Braxton1980 1y ago
      [flagged]
- bruce511 1y ago
  I respect your opinion, but I disagree with it. Yes, just under half the voters will say they didn't vote for him. But more people did, and that's how democracy works. After the vote it's easy for people to blame the media, or to claim that he's doing things they didn't vote for. It's easy to just say "I'm not responsible for this". But democracy means the people vote. The winner is the ones with the most votes. If you voted wrong, that's on you, and you need to understand that, and acknowledge it. Only by taking responsibility can you understand the power you wield, and maybe wield it more carefully in the future. And no, none of the things he's found are a surprise. His character is no secret. His approach to politics is no secret. His policies are no secret. His willingness to grift is no secret. A plurality of those who voted chose him. Those that didn't vote decided he deserved half their vote. In truth I don't think it's stupid to say "Americans want this". Moderate Republicans are scared of being primaried. They know what their constituents want. I don't think all Americans want this. But I think a lot of them do. No one is predicting a Blue senate in 2 years. Those red seats are safe. Because deep down a big chunk of America is happy with this. This is the very essence of democracy. A govt of the people, voted by the people. Look at the govt. It's a mirror of the people who got them there, and keep them there. I get this is frustrating if you are a minority voter. Minorities get stomped on by majorities- that's the very core of democracy. So forgive me, but at least for 2 years we need to keep saying it - you voted for this. Because until lots of voters figure out just how responsible they are, they're not going to change. If you voted for this, take some responsibility. Edit: I see you're getting down voted. I disagree either that too. Your point is coherent and a common part of this conversation. Voting here is about conversation, not agreement.

user9999999999 1y ago

> or make the world a better place. Exactly. The past 163 days have only been about hurting people and cutting things down. There's no hopeful or optimistic rhetoric. Its just hate after hate after hate and blame. You cannot build a great country on this. But you most certainly can tear one down.

jfcnk 1y ago
As Lincoln said I hope I have god on my side but I must have... Same choice faces everyone but there are no Lincolns around. Its a nation of hustlers, podcasters and youtubers who dont really fight for anything other than views, upvotes and likes.
- ModernMech 1y ago
  I'm not sure, I think maybe that's the younger generation. But there are amazingly strong people here. I mean, I certainly don't know any podcasters, streamers, or tick tockers. Do you? We do have a problem with celebrity worship in this country, but I think that might be coming to its logical conclusion.