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*Maria Skłodowska-Curie, as she herself insisted on being called. BBC should know better.

misiek08 1y ago
She even wanted to be Skłodowska, but then she wouldn’t be able to work as scientist and be respected. Curie is her husband's and that was the only way to be someone back then.
- lo_zamoyski 1y ago
  This sounds false. "Contrary to the practice of some other countries, French women do not legally change names when they marry; however, it is customary that they adopt their husband's name as a "usage name" for daily life." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_name https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_name
closewith 1y ago
The BBC are quite poor at this kind of thing, preferring their style guide to official names. The still use Czech Republic for Czechia, Republic of Ireland for Ireland, and Turkey for Türkiye.
- Galanwe 1y ago
  > The still use Czech Republic for Czechia Naive question but is Czechia a new name? The UN lists "Czech Republic" as official name and "Czechia" as the short name. > Republic of Ireland for Ireland To be fair, I don't think this is partisan, but rather just a way to differentiate the state from the island.
  - Symbiote 1y ago
    If an article would use "Islamic Republic of Iran" then it should use "Czech Republic". If they would just write "Iran" then they should use "Czechia".
    - davkan 1y ago
      I don’t know about the UK but, In America I never hear Czechia, just Czech Republic. To my ears it sounds no more formal than “United States”. I understand that’s not the case in the EU though.
      - basisword 1y ago
        To be fair Czechia has been official for less than a decade. Unless people are dealing with it on a regular basis they're going to use what they know which, for most is still Czech Republic.
        closewith 1y ago
        Czechia has been the official name in English since independence in 1993. It's only since 2016 that the Government of the Czech Republic has been making a concerted effort to change usage abroad.
    - closewith 1y ago
      No, that's not the case, as even in contexts where the long name is normally used, such as UN nameplates and resolutions, Czechia is now used in preparation for the removal of the long name.
  - theelous3 1y ago
    As an Irish person, yes. Just calling Ireland Ireland when you are specifically being asked what country you are from for official purposes is a bit too orbital a view. Same goes for discussions from within a country holding contested ground sharing the name of a country with an island, blah blah. It's a complicated subject, and nobody begrudges them the clarity.
    - closewith 1y ago
      I think if you ask around, you'll find yourself very much in the minority of Irish people. Republic of Ireland is almost never used outside of the football team, as it's simply not the name of the country.
      - johannes1234321 1y ago
        While I. The context of the BBC, the distinction to Northern Ireland is relevant.
      - theelous3 1y ago
        You're not understanding my comment at all. I'm not talking about the internal use of ROI within Ireland. Not once have I heard anyone even broach this as a topic. Nobody cares. If someone asks you where you are from, and you tell them Ireland, and they inquire the north or the republic - what are you going to do? Just repeat "Ireland" at them like some kind of contrarian idiot? Tell them you are "not from northern Ireland" so as to rule out all of the places you are not from? ROI is a perfectly serviceable term for helping people understand what you mean, if the context isn't clear enough already.
        closewith 1y ago
        > Not once have I heard anyone even broach this as a topic. I have a feeling you just don't pay attention or, from previous experience with you, are incapable of determining how other people feel about this topic. > ROI is a perfectly serviceable term for helping people understand what you mean, if the context isn't clear enough already. It's a specifically politically charged term used by people who either don't know better or have a bone to pick. It's not commonly used in Ireland and it's not used to differentiate innocently between Northern Ireland and Ireland.
  - closewith 1y ago
    > Naive question but is Czechia a new name? Not a new name, but Czechia has made a concerted effort since 2016 to have it used in place of the Czech Republic. Almost all international body and most media style guides have since acceded. The BBC lags. > To be fair, I don't think this is partisan, but rather just a way to differentiate the state from the island. No, like the British Isles, this is very much a controversial name and one to which the Irish Government formally objects. This is even the source of a diplomatic disagreement between the Irish Government and Wikipedia due to their style guide.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- damidekronik 1y ago
  Maybe we can at least fix the headline here, on hacker news
- unstablediffusi 1y ago
  >Czech Republic for Czechia why single it out? even the countries that use (mostly) latin alphabet don't necessary have the same name in english - Poland is Polska, Lithuania is Lietuva, Estonia is Eesti, Finland is Suomi, etc. And latinizations/romanizations are often wildly inaccurate - Ukraine is actually Ukraina, Russia is actually Rossia, and the english pronunciations are completely wrong. Japan is Nihon. etc etc. >Republic of Ireland for Ireland there are two irelands, fyi >Türkiye no one can type that u on a keyboard without googling and copypasting it. you might as well insist on using hieroglyphs for CJK things
  - closewith 1y ago
    > Czechia > why single it out? Because the country of Czechia has asked the English-speaking world to refer to it that way. > there are two irelands, fyi There is Ireland, the island of Ireland, and Northern Ireland. Republic of Ireland refers to the soccer team and nothing else, FYI. The country of Ireland has also requested that the English speaking world use its name, Ireland and specifically not the Republic of Ireland. > no one can type that u on a keyboard without googling and copypasting it. you might as well insist on using hieroglyphs for CJK things Ah, so we'll just decide to rename countries with inconvenient letters. How very colonial of you.
    - GJim 1y ago
      > soccer team I don't think anybody plays "soccer" in Ireland! (Not in NI or the Republic!)
      - closewith 1y ago
        Do you mean it's not popular or people don't use the name? If the former, you're wrong: soccer is the most played sport in Ireland. If the latter, you're wrong: football is Gaelic football almost universally outside Dublin and soccer is soccer. In Dublin, it's 50/50 depending on area, but no-one will blink if you say soccer.
    - unstablediffusi 1y ago
- jaoane 1y ago
  I’m pretty sure they prefer “Kyiv”, though.
  - lo_zamoyski 1y ago
    Spelling is one thing, but no one pronounces it the Ukrainian way (ˈkɪjiu̯) which is somewhat torturous for non-Ukrainian speakers. The best common pronunciation in English that more or less respects English phonetic patterns IMO is "KEE-iv". Still, people need to respect the fact that each language can create their own variants. English speakers are under no obligation to call Wales "Cymru" or Finland "Suomi". It's fine.
- kergonath 1y ago
  > The still use Czech Republic for Czechia Czech Republic is sill the formal name, right? Last time I checked it was overly formal, but not wrong to use it. > Republic of Ireland for Ireland Brits do this because of Northern Ireland (mostly for bad reasons, but still). Countries are called differently depending on language and context. It’s fine.
  - GJim 1y ago
    > Brits do this because of Northern Ireland (mostly for bad reasons, but still). This isn't specific to the British! ROI and NI refer to different countries on the island of Ireland. I'm curious why you state "mostly for bad reasons"? (I assume you are American!)
    - closewith 1y ago
      > This isn't specific to the British! But it is. Republic of Ireland when used to refer to the country is used almost exclusively in Britain and specifically to marginalise the country of Ireland.
      - BalinKing 1y ago
        I’m dubious—I’m an American who knows comparatively little about the Troubles and yet have always thought “Republic of Ireland” was the official name. I certainly use it fairly often, completely innocuously, to distinguish between it and Northern Ireland. I probably picked it up from the Wikipedia article, which prominently lists them both as common names.
      - ekaryotic 1y ago
        the republic of ireland, or the irish republic is the official name of the country as stated on the constitution. it's not offensive at all to my irish self and is on every international letter address. southern ireland is mildly offensive because it implies ignorance of my government but not very much so. if it was offensive we wouldn't use the term northern ireland so often. the official name for that is so long i don't remember it off hand.
shawabawa3 1y ago
any source on this? It's difficult to find any primary source on her opinion All her written texts i can find after she moved to France she referred to herself as "Marie" In her biography of Pierre Curie, she herself wrote of herself before she married "Mon nom est Marie Sklodowska" here's a letter she wrote to the president and signed simply "Marie Curie" https://www.docsteach.org/documents/document/letter-from-marie-curie-to-president-herbert-hoover https://www.docsteach.org/documents/document/letter-from-mar...
- lo_zamoyski 1y ago
  You're focusing only on "Marie", whereas the greater emphasis should arguably be on "Skłodowska". AFAIK, in 19th century France, a woman's legal name did not change after she married. She adopted her husband's name as a matter of usage, however. FWIW, I, too, have heard that Marie Skłodowska-Curie wished to make prominent her maiden name, perhaps in the double barrelled form (which is the way I've seen it many times in other languages).
  - StopDisinfo910 1y ago
    You are claiming she wished to be called Skłodowska-Curie but all her own correspondance is signed Marie Curie and as the author points out I have never seen anyone actually source this alleged wish. Are you sure you are not a victim of Polish nationalism here?
GJim 1y ago
Regardless. She is far more widely known as Marie Curie in the English speaking world. Using any other name would be confusing for most readers.
- johannes1234321 1y ago
  As long as the "Curie" is kept the confusion is small, however serves as a vehicle to teach more about her and the time. And after a while it won't be confusing at all.

She even wanted to be Skłodowska, but then she wouldn’t be able to work as scientist and be respected. Curie is her husband's and that was the only way to be someone back then.

lo_zamoyski 1y ago
This sounds false. "Contrary to the practice of some other countries, French women do not legally change names when they marry; however, it is customary that they adopt their husband's name as a "usage name" for daily life." [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_name https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_name

closewith 1y ago

The BBC are quite poor at this kind of thing, preferring their style guide to official names. The still use Czech Republic for Czechia, Republic of Ireland for Ireland, and Turkey for Türkiye.

Galanwe 1y ago
> The still use Czech Republic for Czechia Naive question but is Czechia a new name? The UN lists "Czech Republic" as official name and "Czechia" as the short name. > Republic of Ireland for Ireland To be fair, I don't think this is partisan, but rather just a way to differentiate the state from the island.
- Symbiote 1y ago
  If an article would use "Islamic Republic of Iran" then it should use "Czech Republic". If they would just write "Iran" then they should use "Czechia".
  - davkan 1y ago
    I don’t know about the UK but, In America I never hear Czechia, just Czech Republic. To my ears it sounds no more formal than “United States”. I understand that’s not the case in the EU though.
    - basisword 1y ago
      To be fair Czechia has been official for less than a decade. Unless people are dealing with it on a regular basis they're going to use what they know which, for most is still Czech Republic.
      - closewith 1y ago
        Czechia has been the official name in English since independence in 1993. It's only since 2016 that the Government of the Czech Republic has been making a concerted effort to change usage abroad.
  - closewith 1y ago
    No, that's not the case, as even in contexts where the long name is normally used, such as UN nameplates and resolutions, Czechia is now used in preparation for the removal of the long name.
- theelous3 1y ago
  As an Irish person, yes. Just calling Ireland Ireland when you are specifically being asked what country you are from for official purposes is a bit too orbital a view. Same goes for discussions from within a country holding contested ground sharing the name of a country with an island, blah blah. It's a complicated subject, and nobody begrudges them the clarity.
  - closewith 1y ago
    I think if you ask around, you'll find yourself very much in the minority of Irish people. Republic of Ireland is almost never used outside of the football team, as it's simply not the name of the country.
    - johannes1234321 1y ago
      While I. The context of the BBC, the distinction to Northern Ireland is relevant.
    - theelous3 1y ago
      You're not understanding my comment at all. I'm not talking about the internal use of ROI within Ireland. Not once have I heard anyone even broach this as a topic. Nobody cares. If someone asks you where you are from, and you tell them Ireland, and they inquire the north or the republic - what are you going to do? Just repeat "Ireland" at them like some kind of contrarian idiot? Tell them you are "not from northern Ireland" so as to rule out all of the places you are not from? ROI is a perfectly serviceable term for helping people understand what you mean, if the context isn't clear enough already.
      - closewith 1y ago
        > Not once have I heard anyone even broach this as a topic. I have a feeling you just don't pay attention or, from previous experience with you, are incapable of determining how other people feel about this topic. > ROI is a perfectly serviceable term for helping people understand what you mean, if the context isn't clear enough already. It's a specifically politically charged term used by people who either don't know better or have a bone to pick. It's not commonly used in Ireland and it's not used to differentiate innocently between Northern Ireland and Ireland.
- closewith 1y ago
  > Naive question but is Czechia a new name? Not a new name, but Czechia has made a concerted effort since 2016 to have it used in place of the Czech Republic. Almost all international body and most media style guides have since acceded. The BBC lags. > To be fair, I don't think this is partisan, but rather just a way to differentiate the state from the island. No, like the British Isles, this is very much a controversial name and one to which the Irish Government formally objects. This is even the source of a diplomatic disagreement between the Irish Government and Wikipedia due to their style guide.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
damidekronik 1y ago
Maybe we can at least fix the headline here, on hacker news
unstablediffusi 1y ago
>Czech Republic for Czechia why single it out? even the countries that use (mostly) latin alphabet don't necessary have the same name in english - Poland is Polska, Lithuania is Lietuva, Estonia is Eesti, Finland is Suomi, etc. And latinizations/romanizations are often wildly inaccurate - Ukraine is actually Ukraina, Russia is actually Rossia, and the english pronunciations are completely wrong. Japan is Nihon. etc etc. >Republic of Ireland for Ireland there are two irelands, fyi >Türkiye no one can type that u on a keyboard without googling and copypasting it. you might as well insist on using hieroglyphs for CJK things
- closewith 1y ago
  > Czechia > why single it out? Because the country of Czechia has asked the English-speaking world to refer to it that way. > there are two irelands, fyi There is Ireland, the island of Ireland, and Northern Ireland. Republic of Ireland refers to the soccer team and nothing else, FYI. The country of Ireland has also requested that the English speaking world use its name, Ireland and specifically not the Republic of Ireland. > no one can type that u on a keyboard without googling and copypasting it. you might as well insist on using hieroglyphs for CJK things Ah, so we'll just decide to rename countries with inconvenient letters. How very colonial of you.
  - GJim 1y ago
    > soccer team I don't think anybody plays "soccer" in Ireland! (Not in NI or the Republic!)
    - closewith 1y ago
      Do you mean it's not popular or people don't use the name? If the former, you're wrong: soccer is the most played sport in Ireland. If the latter, you're wrong: football is Gaelic football almost universally outside Dublin and soccer is soccer. In Dublin, it's 50/50 depending on area, but no-one will blink if you say soccer.
  - unstablediffusi 1y ago
jaoane 1y ago
I’m pretty sure they prefer “Kyiv”, though.
- lo_zamoyski 1y ago
  Spelling is one thing, but no one pronounces it the Ukrainian way (ˈkɪjiu̯) which is somewhat torturous for non-Ukrainian speakers. The best common pronunciation in English that more or less respects English phonetic patterns IMO is "KEE-iv". Still, people need to respect the fact that each language can create their own variants. English speakers are under no obligation to call Wales "Cymru" or Finland "Suomi". It's fine.
kergonath 1y ago
> The still use Czech Republic for Czechia Czech Republic is sill the formal name, right? Last time I checked it was overly formal, but not wrong to use it. > Republic of Ireland for Ireland Brits do this because of Northern Ireland (mostly for bad reasons, but still). Countries are called differently depending on language and context. It’s fine.
- GJim 1y ago
  > Brits do this because of Northern Ireland (mostly for bad reasons, but still). This isn't specific to the British! ROI and NI refer to different countries on the island of Ireland. I'm curious why you state "mostly for bad reasons"? (I assume you are American!)
  - closewith 1y ago
    > This isn't specific to the British! But it is. Republic of Ireland when used to refer to the country is used almost exclusively in Britain and specifically to marginalise the country of Ireland.
    - BalinKing 1y ago
      I’m dubious—I’m an American who knows comparatively little about the Troubles and yet have always thought “Republic of Ireland” was the official name. I certainly use it fairly often, completely innocuously, to distinguish between it and Northern Ireland. I probably picked it up from the Wikipedia article, which prominently lists them both as common names.
    - ekaryotic 1y ago
      the republic of ireland, or the irish republic is the official name of the country as stated on the constitution. it's not offensive at all to my irish self and is on every international letter address. southern ireland is mildly offensive because it implies ignorance of my government but not very much so. if it was offensive we wouldn't use the term northern ireland so often. the official name for that is so long i don't remember it off hand.

shawabawa3 1y ago

any source on this? It's difficult to find any primary source on her opinion All her written texts i can find after she moved to France she referred to herself as "Marie" In her biography of Pierre Curie, she herself wrote of herself before she married "Mon nom est Marie Sklodowska" here's a letter she wrote to the president and signed simply "Marie Curie" https://www.docsteach.org/documents/document/letter-from-marie-curie-to-president-herbert-hoover https://www.docsteach.org/documents/document/letter-from-mar...

lo_zamoyski 1y ago
You're focusing only on "Marie", whereas the greater emphasis should arguably be on "Skłodowska". AFAIK, in 19th century France, a woman's legal name did not change after she married. She adopted her husband's name as a matter of usage, however. FWIW, I, too, have heard that Marie Skłodowska-Curie wished to make prominent her maiden name, perhaps in the double barrelled form (which is the way I've seen it many times in other languages).
- StopDisinfo910 1y ago
  You are claiming she wished to be called Skłodowska-Curie but all her own correspondance is signed Marie Curie and as the author points out I have never seen anyone actually source this alleged wish. Are you sure you are not a victim of Polish nationalism here?

GJim 1y ago

Regardless. She is far more widely known as Marie Curie in the English speaking world. Using any other name would be confusing for most readers.

johannes1234321 1y ago
As long as the "Curie" is kept the confusion is small, however serves as a vehicle to teach more about her and the time. And after a while it won't be confusing at all.