5 ms·

If plants make decisions, and have preferences. Then ethically, are we not bound to consider those preferences? Then again: nothing wants to be eaten... Lab g

If plants make decisions, and have preferences. Then ethically, are we not bound to consider those preferences? Then again: nothing wants to be eaten... Lab grown meat can't come fast enough: ethical flesh to consume.

AstroBen 1y ago
> Lab grown meat can't come fast enough Yeah, but 6 US states have now banned it Humans are a billion miles away from considering plant preferences
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  cancel culture is out of control these days
nashashmi 1y ago
The plant is happy to give nectar with sugar to pollinators. That means they are ok with being eaten. They are likely not ok with being damaged. So go ahead and take the apple because it will drop otherwise. And take the fruits. If you want to go all out, go with a Jain diet system where carrots and mushrooms are not ok but mints and herbs are a-ok.
gbjw 1y ago
Fruit is plant flesh that is meant (designed?) to be eaten.
nradov 1y ago
There's nothing unethical about eating meat, and lab grown "meat" isn't any more ethical than the real thing.
- kseistrup 1y ago
  In my opinion, “I'ma eat you, coz I am more entitled to live that you are” is unethical. But then again, I also chose a plantbased diet. It is impossible for more complex organism to live on Earth and not feast on other organisms, so you could say I should avoid eating plants too. Correct, but since I cannot avoid killing other beings, I have chosen the path of less overall suffering.
  - nradov 1y ago
    What is suffering and how do you measure it? How do you know that plants don't suffer? Why is less suffering more ethical? I don't believe you've actually thought any of this through in an intellectually rigorous way. Your choices just allow you to falsely believe that you're somehow superior to people with other priorities and values.
    - kseistrup 1y ago
      I perceive suffering as unnecessary pain and/or fear. I can certainly know when I suffer myself. And while it's true that I cannot directly measure the pain or fear of other organisms, to some extend I can extrapolate my own experience to that of other beings. Empathy. First and foremost “higher” animals. E.g., if a dog is screaming when somebody treads its tail, I lend from my own experience when somebody steps on my toe and conclude that the dog is screaming in pain. I could be wrong, of course, but that's how the reasoning goes. And don't we all behave based on our conscious or unconscious evaluations? The further away, phylogenetically, we come from the human species, the more difficult it is for me to assess if a being is suffering (i.e., experiencing unnecessary pain or suffering), but based on my observations of plants, and my knowledge of their anatomy and physiology, I have concluded that yes, they may feel something — even pain — but it doesn't look much like they do. But I could still be wrong. It's still how my reasoning goes. If one day I am faced with more tangible evidence, then I will obviously have to evaluate my behaviour. Until then I choose what seems to be the road of less suffering. 40+ years ago I worked for several months at a “chicken farm” where chicks were raised from “Easter chickens” to fullgrown chickens in roosts of 10_000 chickens each. It was a waking nightmare. It is _the_ most horrible experience I have had in my life because of the obvious and extensive suffering of the animals, and the experience made me choose to become a vegetarian because I didn't want to contribute to that specific suffering. Later evidence has shown that pigs and cattle and other farmed animals are experiencing suffering too because of the way humans are raising them. I simply don't want to be a part of that. Period. My choice of diet doesn't change my value as a human being even one iota (the same way the value of any other human being isn't measured by their choice of diet). I could be very very wrong about the whole thing, and in that way making things unnecessarily complicated for myself (and my fellow human beings), but I cannot live on Earth without making decisions, and I try to make the best I can — just like all other humans do. All other humans could be right, for all I know. I could be the fool here. Who am I to judge.

AstroBen 1y ago

> Lab grown meat can't come fast enough Yeah, but 6 US states have now banned it Humans are a billion miles away from considering plant preferences

sorcerer-mar 1y ago
cancel culture is out of control these days

nashashmi 1y ago

The plant is happy to give nectar with sugar to pollinators. That means they are ok with being eaten. They are likely not ok with being damaged. So go ahead and take the apple because it will drop otherwise. And take the fruits. If you want to go all out, go with a Jain diet system where carrots and mushrooms are not ok but mints and herbs are a-ok.

gbjw 1y ago

Fruit is plant flesh that is meant (designed?) to be eaten.

nradov 1y ago

There's nothing unethical about eating meat, and lab grown "meat" isn't any more ethical than the real thing.

kseistrup 1y ago
In my opinion, “I'ma eat you, coz I am more entitled to live that you are” is unethical. But then again, I also chose a plantbased diet. It is impossible for more complex organism to live on Earth and not feast on other organisms, so you could say I should avoid eating plants too. Correct, but since I cannot avoid killing other beings, I have chosen the path of less overall suffering.
- nradov 1y ago
  What is suffering and how do you measure it? How do you know that plants don't suffer? Why is less suffering more ethical? I don't believe you've actually thought any of this through in an intellectually rigorous way. Your choices just allow you to falsely believe that you're somehow superior to people with other priorities and values.
  - kseistrup 1y ago
    I perceive suffering as unnecessary pain and/or fear. I can certainly know when I suffer myself. And while it's true that I cannot directly measure the pain or fear of other organisms, to some extend I can extrapolate my own experience to that of other beings. Empathy. First and foremost “higher” animals. E.g., if a dog is screaming when somebody treads its tail, I lend from my own experience when somebody steps on my toe and conclude that the dog is screaming in pain. I could be wrong, of course, but that's how the reasoning goes. And don't we all behave based on our conscious or unconscious evaluations? The further away, phylogenetically, we come from the human species, the more difficult it is for me to assess if a being is suffering (i.e., experiencing unnecessary pain or suffering), but based on my observations of plants, and my knowledge of their anatomy and physiology, I have concluded that yes, they may feel something — even pain — but it doesn't look much like they do. But I could still be wrong. It's still how my reasoning goes. If one day I am faced with more tangible evidence, then I will obviously have to evaluate my behaviour. Until then I choose what seems to be the road of less suffering. 40+ years ago I worked for several months at a “chicken farm” where chicks were raised from “Easter chickens” to fullgrown chickens in roosts of 10_000 chickens each. It was a waking nightmare. It is _the_ most horrible experience I have had in my life because of the obvious and extensive suffering of the animals, and the experience made me choose to become a vegetarian because I didn't want to contribute to that specific suffering. Later evidence has shown that pigs and cattle and other farmed animals are experiencing suffering too because of the way humans are raising them. I simply don't want to be a part of that. Period. My choice of diet doesn't change my value as a human being even one iota (the same way the value of any other human being isn't measured by their choice of diet). I could be very very wrong about the whole thing, and in that way making things unnecessarily complicated for myself (and my fellow human beings), but I cannot live on Earth without making decisions, and I try to make the best I can — just like all other humans do. All other humans could be right, for all I know. I could be the fool here. Who am I to judge.