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I’m incredibly grateful that medical aid in dying is an option and that one can have agency not only in how they live but also in how they die. I had someone c

I’m incredibly grateful that medical aid in dying is an option and that one can have agency not only in how they live but also in how they die. I had someone close to me opt for it. They were greatly suffering and had no chance of their condition getting better. Having a planned final date allowed us to say farewell and thank each other for all the great moment we shared without feeling ominous. The last phone call I had with them will stay with me forever.

pseudosavant 1y ago
I've been grateful that a couple of loved ones were able to choose to end their suffering. Both times, it was a sad, but very rational decision. I do wish there was a lot less stigma about it. People said some genuinely awful things to my aunt about her choice before she passed especially.
gusmally 1y ago
It must be hard to say one last permanent goodbye.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- vjvjvjvjghv 1y ago
  It beats seeing them suffer over years.
- lurking_swe 1y ago
  on the bright side, at least you don’t need to worry about “i wish i told them __ before they died.” It’s a good way to have closure i suppose.
antisthenes 1y ago
It's a mercy we allow our pets. No reason we shouldn't allow it to ourselves.
- koolba 1y ago
  Pets are legally property. You may love your pet, but it’s not human. The risk with allowing humans to do this is that it’s possible for someone not of sound mind to come to this conclusion.
  - MiscIdeaMaker99 1y ago
    What constitutes a sound mind?
    - swat535 1y ago
      Isn’t this what we have psychologists for ? Surely you don’t think an 18 year old claiming to be endlessly suffering due to failing a math test sound enough to terminate his life?
  - EvanAnderson 1y ago
    People who aren't of sound mind can come to this conclusion regardless of the law. Giving people who are of sound mind a way to control their death with dignity (and in a minimally burdensome way for those who they leave behind) is the point.
  - qualeed 1y ago
    >The risk with allowing humans to do this is that it’s possible for someone not of sound mind to come to this conclusion. It seems like lots of people think you can just go to your doctor and be prescribed a cocktail of death because you feel down today. That's not what assisted death programs are like, at all. There's waiting periods, evaluations by independent doctors and psychiatrists, interviews, etc. to determine your capacity and understanding of the decision. Someone who is not of sound mind is not getting approval for assisted death. Anyone sufficiently determined enough is going to find a way to die, regardless of what laws or programs are there. These programs don't change that, and they aren't meant to.
    - koolba 1y ago
wat10000 1y ago
A centenarian relative did this. But it's not actually legal where they lived. So instead of doing it properly, it was done by withholding food and water and they slowly faded over the course of a few days. It is absolutely insane the way we do this stuff. I understand why people are concerned about medically assisted death, but this is the sort of thing that happens without it.
- dachris 1y ago
  I've also seen elderly people whose time was past (very old, bed-ridden, lost their partner) go into into what's basically hunger strike in the nursing home. They said "I'm not really hungry today", eating very little, getting thinner and thinner until the end. It's now legal here, but family, religion and tradition can be obstacles to assisted dying. In case you don't want to leave that way, you have to prepare ahead of time. There's different legal means in different countries, e.g. advance directive covers the case where you can't decide yourself anymore.
- Yeul 1y ago
  I think doctors have always pumped people full of painkillers to the point of death long before it was legal. Who would know? Besides with modern technology it has become debatable what death is. You can plug someone to a machine and keep their heart going for years.
  - wat10000 1y ago
    I've heard lots of stories of that being done, anyway. Oh, that much morphine is dangerous, but they're in a lot of pain....
BrandoElFollito 1y ago
Unfortunately not everywhere. In France the parliament is passing half-assed laws to praise all kinds of religious authorities and call it progress. Luckily we have our neighbor countries that are way more civilized than we are.
apwell23 1y ago
[flagged]
- tomhow 1y ago
  You can't comment like this on Hacker News. It's not what the site is for and it destroys what it is for. Please heed the guidelines, particularly these ones: Be kind. Don’t be snarky. Converse curiously; don’t cross-examine. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes. Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - apwell23 1y ago
    not sneering. I don't see what i said was deserving of downvotes and flagging unless ppl really have plan to have their kids take care of them in their old age. Lots of ppl think of their kids a retirement plans, that runs counter to voluntarily ending one's life when they can't take care of themselves anymore.
    - tomhow 1y ago
      > I don't see what i said was deserving of downvotes and flagging "total selfish prick to not choose medically assisted suicide" This is clearly against the guidelines. If nothing else, it breaks the one that says "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive". But others too. If you didn't know that's how the guidelines are interpreted, you do now. Please try harder to use HN as intended in future.
      - apwell23 1y ago
        Thats not what i said. you respond to parts of the sentence in real life? why are you doing it here? here is the rest of sentence for your reference "and have your kids put their lives on hold to change your diapers six times a day." This is what i had to do personally for my parent and I would never ever subject my own kid to that. And yes someone who does that to their own kid despite option discussed in this post is a selfish prick. can you please read the guidelines yourself first before going around quoting them. "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." > If you didn't know that's how the guidelines are interpreted, you do now. Please try harder to use HN as intended in future. maybe take your own advice then .
ycombobulator 1y ago
I get it that this is the accepted orthodoxy in Hacker News circles. But I reject your framing. You already have the option to choose suicide. Go make your arrangements, and then go do it privately. Nothing is stopping you except yourself, and no one can stop you if you don't make your intentions clear to someone willing and able to do so, in which case it is really a "cry for help." What the pro-euthanasia/"aid in dying" legalization people really demand is not a right to suicide, but a right to social approval of their suicide. This is what they call "dignity," the right to broadcast their intention to kill themselves on their own terms, while anyone else in a position to intervene is forced to helplessly watch them do it. And to integrate this into the healthcare system, and we've seen how that story plays out in Canada and in Europe. To the point where desperate people are pushed toward suicide and physically healthy, mentally sick children are killed off with state approval.

pseudosavant 1y ago

I've been grateful that a couple of loved ones were able to choose to end their suffering. Both times, it was a sad, but very rational decision. I do wish there was a lot less stigma about it. People said some genuinely awful things to my aunt about her choice before she passed especially.

gusmally 1y ago

It must be hard to say one last permanent goodbye.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
vjvjvjvjghv 1y ago
It beats seeing them suffer over years.
lurking_swe 1y ago
on the bright side, at least you don’t need to worry about “i wish i told them __ before they died.” It’s a good way to have closure i suppose.

antisthenes 1y ago

It's a mercy we allow our pets. No reason we shouldn't allow it to ourselves.

koolba 1y ago
Pets are legally property. You may love your pet, but it’s not human. The risk with allowing humans to do this is that it’s possible for someone not of sound mind to come to this conclusion.
- MiscIdeaMaker99 1y ago
  What constitutes a sound mind?
  - swat535 1y ago
    Isn’t this what we have psychologists for ? Surely you don’t think an 18 year old claiming to be endlessly suffering due to failing a math test sound enough to terminate his life?
- EvanAnderson 1y ago
  People who aren't of sound mind can come to this conclusion regardless of the law. Giving people who are of sound mind a way to control their death with dignity (and in a minimally burdensome way for those who they leave behind) is the point.
- qualeed 1y ago
  >The risk with allowing humans to do this is that it’s possible for someone not of sound mind to come to this conclusion. It seems like lots of people think you can just go to your doctor and be prescribed a cocktail of death because you feel down today. That's not what assisted death programs are like, at all. There's waiting periods, evaluations by independent doctors and psychiatrists, interviews, etc. to determine your capacity and understanding of the decision. Someone who is not of sound mind is not getting approval for assisted death. Anyone sufficiently determined enough is going to find a way to die, regardless of what laws or programs are there. These programs don't change that, and they aren't meant to.
  - koolba 1y ago

wat10000 1y ago

A centenarian relative did this. But it's not actually legal where they lived. So instead of doing it properly, it was done by withholding food and water and they slowly faded over the course of a few days. It is absolutely insane the way we do this stuff. I understand why people are concerned about medically assisted death, but this is the sort of thing that happens without it.

dachris 1y ago
I've also seen elderly people whose time was past (very old, bed-ridden, lost their partner) go into into what's basically hunger strike in the nursing home. They said "I'm not really hungry today", eating very little, getting thinner and thinner until the end. It's now legal here, but family, religion and tradition can be obstacles to assisted dying. In case you don't want to leave that way, you have to prepare ahead of time. There's different legal means in different countries, e.g. advance directive covers the case where you can't decide yourself anymore.
Yeul 1y ago
I think doctors have always pumped people full of painkillers to the point of death long before it was legal. Who would know? Besides with modern technology it has become debatable what death is. You can plug someone to a machine and keep their heart going for years.
- wat10000 1y ago
  I've heard lots of stories of that being done, anyway. Oh, that much morphine is dangerous, but they're in a lot of pain....

BrandoElFollito 1y ago

Unfortunately not everywhere. In France the parliament is passing half-assed laws to praise all kinds of religious authorities and call it progress. Luckily we have our neighbor countries that are way more civilized than we are.

apwell23 1y ago

[flagged]

tomhow 1y ago
You can't comment like this on Hacker News. It's not what the site is for and it destroys what it is for. Please heed the guidelines, particularly these ones: Be kind. Don’t be snarky. Converse curiously; don’t cross-examine. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes. Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- apwell23 1y ago
  not sneering. I don't see what i said was deserving of downvotes and flagging unless ppl really have plan to have their kids take care of them in their old age. Lots of ppl think of their kids a retirement plans, that runs counter to voluntarily ending one's life when they can't take care of themselves anymore.
  - tomhow 1y ago
    > I don't see what i said was deserving of downvotes and flagging "total selfish prick to not choose medically assisted suicide" This is clearly against the guidelines. If nothing else, it breaks the one that says "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive". But others too. If you didn't know that's how the guidelines are interpreted, you do now. Please try harder to use HN as intended in future.
    - apwell23 1y ago
      Thats not what i said. you respond to parts of the sentence in real life? why are you doing it here? here is the rest of sentence for your reference "and have your kids put their lives on hold to change your diapers six times a day." This is what i had to do personally for my parent and I would never ever subject my own kid to that. And yes someone who does that to their own kid despite option discussed in this post is a selfish prick. can you please read the guidelines yourself first before going around quoting them. "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." > If you didn't know that's how the guidelines are interpreted, you do now. Please try harder to use HN as intended in future. maybe take your own advice then .

ycombobulator 1y ago

I get it that this is the accepted orthodoxy in Hacker News circles. But I reject your framing. You already have the option to choose suicide. Go make your arrangements, and then go do it privately. Nothing is stopping you except yourself, and no one can stop you if you don't make your intentions clear to someone willing and able to do so, in which case it is really a "cry for help." What the pro-euthanasia/"aid in dying" legalization people really demand is not a right to suicide, but a right to social approval of their suicide. This is what they call "dignity," the right to broadcast their intention to kill themselves on their own terms, while anyone else in a position to intervene is forced to helplessly watch them do it. And to integrate this into the healthcare system, and we've seen how that story plays out in Canada and in Europe. To the point where desperate people are pushed toward suicide and physically healthy, mentally sick children are killed off with state approval.