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For those wondering why this is a safety issue, in many American states abortion or "fetal harm" is considered murder. You can be imprisoned, theoretically for

For those wondering why this is a safety issue, in many American states abortion or "fetal harm" is considered murder. You can be imprisoned, theoretically for life. This is of course a rapidly evolving area of law since the fall of Roe v. Wade. Having one's menstrual data available for subpoena is therefore quite a literal safety risk. "At least 38 states authorize homicide charges for causing pregnancy loss" https://www.law.cuny.edu/academics/clinical-programs/hrgj/projects/report-u-s-criminalization-of-abortion-and-pregnancy-outcomes/ https://www.law.cuny.edu/academics/clinical-programs/hrgj/pr...

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
nlitened 1y ago
[flagged]
- scblock 1y ago
  Then you haven't tried looking. Women are being arrested and even convicted for having miscarriages, including in the US. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/georgia-arrest-miscarriage-fetal-personhood-rcna199400 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/georgia-arrest-miscarri... https://churchandstate.org.uk/2015/01/conservative-dream-come-true-woman-sentenced-to-30-years-behind-bars-for-having-a-miscarriage/ https://churchandstate.org.uk/2015/01/conservative-dream-com... https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/06/health/miscarriage-criminal-charges https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/06/health/miscarriage-criminal-c... https://www.themarshallproject.org/2025/04/02/law-pregnancy-california-ohio-georgia-alabama https://www.themarshallproject.org/2025/04/02/law-pregnancy-... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-increasing-risk-of-criminal-charges-for-women-who-experience-a-miscarriage https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-increasing-risk-of-cri...
  - nlitened 1y ago
    Every single of the six links you provided are about miscarriages and not abortions. Either I don’t understand something medical (not a doctor), or you’re mixing things to derail a conversation (dishonestly or unintentionally). Whether those miscarriages were natural or a result of human malice, is an absolutely separate discussion. How does all that prove an original point that an abortion can get a woman to prison?
    - scblock 1y ago
      This comment in this thread explains it fairly clearly. Do not make the mistake of thinking this is just a semantic difference. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44247822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44247822
      - nlitened 1y ago
        I agree that overreach of prosecution is possible (as with many other laws), but I disagree that a fix for bad laws or bad legal process is “make it easier for people to break laws and not get caught, and to cooperate discreetly on breaking laws”
    - em-bee 1y ago
      if an unintentional miscarriage can get you punished, then an abortion most certainly can too, since an abortion is an intentional miscarriage.
      - axus 1y ago
        "If Poolaw had had an abortion instead of a miscarriage, she would not have been charged at all, as abortion is legal in Oklahoma." That was definitely not what I expected.
        em-bee 1y ago
        that is completely bizarre!
  - msdrider 1y ago
    You should clarify that these are women who deliberately induce a miscarriage (ie. a home abortion) or whose extraordinarily reckless and dangerous behaviours result in a miscarriage that may or may not have been deliberately induced, but either way are unconscionable and directly responsible for the child's death. You don't do your cause any favours when you present these cases as "miscarriages", knowing full well that many people perceive this as the unfortunate loss of a child by a conscientious and responsible expectant mother.
    - axus 1y ago
      Their reply was to "I couldn’t find instances of women being imprisoned for getting an abortion." Replace "You" with "I"?
      - mstridder1 1y ago
        [flagged]
- em-bee 1y ago
  try searching again. here is one example: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/abortion-laws-punishing-women-supreme-court-ended-roe-rcna36268 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/abortion-laws-punishin... it was overturned, but at least one judge believed that imprisonment was warranted and issued his verdict accordingly. and many politicians believe that too and push for laws to that effect.
  - nlitened 1y ago
    Purvi Patel gave birth to a 5.5—6 months baby, sealed it in a plastic bag, and threw it in a trash container! I guess we could agree to disagree whether at least some jail time was warranted in this case.
    - em-bee 1y ago
      i didn't see any of those details in the article, and even one of the linked ones says that it was under dispute whether the baby was born alive or could have survived. if in doubt... the real problem is our treatment of these issues as a society globally. judging people for having children out of wedlock. not educating them in ways that would give them the strength to avoid that. judging their parents. parents judging their children, instead of forgiving them and supporting them. society not supporting single parents. and don't use religion as an excuse. any religion that supports judging someone for this is wrong or misunderstood.
  - msdrider 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - em-bee 1y ago
      the article i read claimed that it was under dispute whether the baby was alive. if in doubt... i just wrote about this in response to the sibling comment, but let me add this: the problem is lack of compassion for others. this women was under distress. she had no support from her family or from anyone else in society. this was not her failing. this is ours! if we would actually support women in such a situation, then this would not even have happened. her actions are symptom of how we treat others, of our judgement and our lack of support. these problems will never go away until we change that.
- dfxm12 1y ago
  Lizelle Gonzalez was arrested and jailed for this in Texas.
  - nlitened 1y ago
    It turned out that she was put in jail mistakenly for a couple of days — and is getting up to $1M compensation for the judicial mistake. How is that “women get imprisoned for abortion”? Something that looks good in a clickbait title, but actually shows proper functioning of legal system instead.
    - dfxm12 1y ago
      Because she was literally put in jail after being charged with murder for having an abortion. Full stop. The fact that the prosecutors got the facts wrong and still threw her in jail is actually evidence that the legal system is not functioning properly. In a properly functioning legal system, she wouldn't have been arrested in the first place, but that's a different conversation.
fhdkweig 1y ago
As a clarification for the "I didn't do anything wrong, I have nothing to hide" crowd, most of the time when someone is pregnant and then suddenly not pregnant, the cause is a miscarriage. And most people would go see a doctor if there is a lot of pain or bleeding. An overzealous prosecutor (usually running for election) is going to make the claim that you went to a doctor and now you aren't pregnant, you must have made an abortion. And now you have to hire lawyers to argue in court. And all in a easily 3rd-party mass-suppeonable database. That's why this is such a big problem. https://thegeorgiasun.com/news/woman-arrested-after-miscarriage-in-georgia-under-abortion-law/ https://thegeorgiasun.com/news/woman-arrested-after-miscarri... https://www.themarshallproject.org/2025/04/02/law-pregnancy-california-ohio-georgia-alabama https://www.themarshallproject.org/2025/04/02/law-pregnancy-...
- msdrider 1y ago
  Surely the burden of proof is on the prosecution? I don't have a problem with this. If a child - even an unborn one - dies in mysterious circumstances, I would prefer the inconvenience of a fruitless investigation over the prospect of living in a society where we don't even care enough to ever be suspicious.
  - freejazz 1y ago
    So you want the state to investigate every single miscarriage? Where did "mysterious circumstances" come from? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere in this thread... Do you think a miscarriage is a "mysterious circumstance"? I can only assume so, given your response. That seems like the result of what could only be tremendous ignorance.
    - mstridder1 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - freejazz 1y ago
        It's not a strawman. You said "mysterious circumstances" when we are talking about miscarriages. Do you think they are the same or not? It's a very simple question. >Do you not want police to investigate reports of someone disposing of human remains in a dumpster? What does this have to do with a miscarriage????
duxup 1y ago
I think it's a big leap from "menstrual tracking" to being prosecuted because ... what? A gap in the tracking data? That's too distant a connection for me to believe that information really would change anything.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

nlitened 1y ago

[flagged]

scblock 1y ago
Then you haven't tried looking. Women are being arrested and even convicted for having miscarriages, including in the US. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/georgia-arrest-miscarriage-fetal-personhood-rcna199400 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/georgia-arrest-miscarri... https://churchandstate.org.uk/2015/01/conservative-dream-come-true-woman-sentenced-to-30-years-behind-bars-for-having-a-miscarriage/ https://churchandstate.org.uk/2015/01/conservative-dream-com... https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/06/health/miscarriage-criminal-charges https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/06/health/miscarriage-criminal-c... https://www.themarshallproject.org/2025/04/02/law-pregnancy-california-ohio-georgia-alabama https://www.themarshallproject.org/2025/04/02/law-pregnancy-... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-increasing-risk-of-criminal-charges-for-women-who-experience-a-miscarriage https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/the-increasing-risk-of-cri...
- nlitened 1y ago
  Every single of the six links you provided are about miscarriages and not abortions. Either I don’t understand something medical (not a doctor), or you’re mixing things to derail a conversation (dishonestly or unintentionally). Whether those miscarriages were natural or a result of human malice, is an absolutely separate discussion. How does all that prove an original point that an abortion can get a woman to prison?
  - scblock 1y ago
    This comment in this thread explains it fairly clearly. Do not make the mistake of thinking this is just a semantic difference. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44247822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44247822
    - nlitened 1y ago
      I agree that overreach of prosecution is possible (as with many other laws), but I disagree that a fix for bad laws or bad legal process is “make it easier for people to break laws and not get caught, and to cooperate discreetly on breaking laws”
  - em-bee 1y ago
    if an unintentional miscarriage can get you punished, then an abortion most certainly can too, since an abortion is an intentional miscarriage.
    - axus 1y ago
      "If Poolaw had had an abortion instead of a miscarriage, she would not have been charged at all, as abortion is legal in Oklahoma." That was definitely not what I expected.
      - em-bee 1y ago
        that is completely bizarre!
- msdrider 1y ago
  You should clarify that these are women who deliberately induce a miscarriage (ie. a home abortion) or whose extraordinarily reckless and dangerous behaviours result in a miscarriage that may or may not have been deliberately induced, but either way are unconscionable and directly responsible for the child's death. You don't do your cause any favours when you present these cases as "miscarriages", knowing full well that many people perceive this as the unfortunate loss of a child by a conscientious and responsible expectant mother.
  - axus 1y ago
    Their reply was to "I couldn’t find instances of women being imprisoned for getting an abortion." Replace "You" with "I"?
    - mstridder1 1y ago
      [flagged]
em-bee 1y ago
try searching again. here is one example: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/abortion-laws-punishing-women-supreme-court-ended-roe-rcna36268 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/abortion-laws-punishin... it was overturned, but at least one judge believed that imprisonment was warranted and issued his verdict accordingly. and many politicians believe that too and push for laws to that effect.
- nlitened 1y ago
  Purvi Patel gave birth to a 5.5—6 months baby, sealed it in a plastic bag, and threw it in a trash container! I guess we could agree to disagree whether at least some jail time was warranted in this case.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    i didn't see any of those details in the article, and even one of the linked ones says that it was under dispute whether the baby was born alive or could have survived. if in doubt... the real problem is our treatment of these issues as a society globally. judging people for having children out of wedlock. not educating them in ways that would give them the strength to avoid that. judging their parents. parents judging their children, instead of forgiving them and supporting them. society not supporting single parents. and don't use religion as an excuse. any religion that supports judging someone for this is wrong or misunderstood.
- msdrider 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - em-bee 1y ago
    the article i read claimed that it was under dispute whether the baby was alive. if in doubt... i just wrote about this in response to the sibling comment, but let me add this: the problem is lack of compassion for others. this women was under distress. she had no support from her family or from anyone else in society. this was not her failing. this is ours! if we would actually support women in such a situation, then this would not even have happened. her actions are symptom of how we treat others, of our judgement and our lack of support. these problems will never go away until we change that.
dfxm12 1y ago
Lizelle Gonzalez was arrested and jailed for this in Texas.
- nlitened 1y ago
  It turned out that she was put in jail mistakenly for a couple of days — and is getting up to $1M compensation for the judicial mistake. How is that “women get imprisoned for abortion”? Something that looks good in a clickbait title, but actually shows proper functioning of legal system instead.
  - dfxm12 1y ago
    Because she was literally put in jail after being charged with murder for having an abortion. Full stop. The fact that the prosecutors got the facts wrong and still threw her in jail is actually evidence that the legal system is not functioning properly. In a properly functioning legal system, she wouldn't have been arrested in the first place, but that's a different conversation.

fhdkweig 1y ago

As a clarification for the "I didn't do anything wrong, I have nothing to hide" crowd, most of the time when someone is pregnant and then suddenly not pregnant, the cause is a miscarriage. And most people would go see a doctor if there is a lot of pain or bleeding. An overzealous prosecutor (usually running for election) is going to make the claim that you went to a doctor and now you aren't pregnant, you must have made an abortion. And now you have to hire lawyers to argue in court. And all in a easily 3rd-party mass-suppeonable database. That's why this is such a big problem. https://thegeorgiasun.com/news/woman-arrested-after-miscarriage-in-georgia-under-abortion-law/ https://thegeorgiasun.com/news/woman-arrested-after-miscarri... https://www.themarshallproject.org/2025/04/02/law-pregnancy-california-ohio-georgia-alabama https://www.themarshallproject.org/2025/04/02/law-pregnancy-...

msdrider 1y ago
Surely the burden of proof is on the prosecution? I don't have a problem with this. If a child - even an unborn one - dies in mysterious circumstances, I would prefer the inconvenience of a fruitless investigation over the prospect of living in a society where we don't even care enough to ever be suspicious.
- freejazz 1y ago
  So you want the state to investigate every single miscarriage? Where did "mysterious circumstances" come from? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere in this thread... Do you think a miscarriage is a "mysterious circumstance"? I can only assume so, given your response. That seems like the result of what could only be tremendous ignorance.
  - mstridder1 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - freejazz 1y ago
      It's not a strawman. You said "mysterious circumstances" when we are talking about miscarriages. Do you think they are the same or not? It's a very simple question. >Do you not want police to investigate reports of someone disposing of human remains in a dumpster? What does this have to do with a miscarriage????

duxup 1y ago

I think it's a big leap from "menstrual tracking" to being prosecuted because ... what? A gap in the tracking data? That's too distant a connection for me to believe that information really would change anything.