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That America was built on immigration one century (or even one decade) ago doesn't say anything about what America should do now. America is a nation that has b
by curtisblaine 1y ago
That America was built on immigration one century (or even one decade) ago doesn't say anything about what America should do now. America is a nation that has borders and a right to control immigration, like all other nations in the world. When America wants more immigration, the American government raises the number of legal immigrants allowed per year. When they want less, they lower that number. Illegal immigrants, hard working or lazy, have nothing to do with that.
- intended 1y agoYou want to ditch history for what America should do now, and what America wants to do now, based on an exact reading of your words, is to "enforce its laws on illegal immigrants". And you implied you want to reduce immigration as well. As I said, many ways to skin a cat. People follow incentives, so why not punish people who are paying for the labor? Arrests for employing them? Its an economic system, theres 2 way incentives. The process used, depends on what problem you are solving.
- Amezarak 1y agoICE has been arresting business owners for this, but unfortunately the legal requirement to do so is very high - you have to prove they knew what they were doing. It should probably be lowered.
- aaronbaugher 1y agoYes, we need much higher penalties on employers who break the law by hiring illegal aliens, and make it harder for them to pretend they didn't know, in addition to deporting illegals. It's not either/or; it's both/and.
- freejazz 1y agoDue process? Who cares?! ICE doesn't need due process and Trump said Americans aren't entitled to it anyway. Do you think Americans are special?
- Amezarak 1y agoThis isn’t a due process issue. There are plenty of crimes where the state does not have to prove you knew you were doing wrong, only that you did wrong. I see no reason why this can’t apply to employers, who would then be much more careful.
- freejazz 1y agoHaving evidence to prove a crime is absolutely part of due process
- Amezarak 1y agoYes, but having to prove you were committing a crime versus the government having to prove you knowingly committed a crime are two different things. We do not always require the latter. For example, in most states, the government does not care whether you knew you were above the legal BAC when convicting you of DUI. As it stands, employers can pretend ignorance and as long as they were not really stupid, put putting things in writing or personally arranging for the trafficking, they can likely get away with it. There’s no reason I can think of why we shouldn’t change that.
- freejazz 1y agoYou're just talking about different standards of knowledge for a crime which has absolutely nothing to do with what I posted, which is that Trump has been arguing that there is no need for americans to receive due process - so the issue of evidentiary standards, which you are discussing, would be completely irrelevant in the scenario he advocates for. Once again, I ask you, as he retorted at a reporter "are Americans special?"
- Amezarak 1y agoI apologize, I thought you were responding to my comment. I didn’t intend or desire to be in a political conversation.
- curtisblaine 1y agoYes, punishing employers for hiring illegal immigrants works too. The two solutions are not exclusive and they can be implemented parallely.