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The mistake was mandates. They might have saved some lives in the near-term, but Americans don't like being told what to do, and the long-term policy consequenc

The mistake was mandates. They might have saved some lives in the near-term, but Americans don't like being told what to do, and the long-term policy consequences could be much worse than the extra 5% coverage mandates brought.

ActorNightly 1y ago
There was no mistake. In no other civilized society, requiring people to do something so small to actually care for each other would be considered a breach of civil rights. Americans are just special Unfortunately, because of how special Americans are, the outcome of being stuck with this current administration was inevitable. It was going to happen sooner or later. Im glad at least its happening sooner when Im still fairly young and have the flexibility to peace out if I need to.
- somenameforme 1y ago
  There was major backlash against mandates everywhere they were imposed, even including in places like China which has an extremely social culture paired with a government with authoritarian level power and relatively low tolerance for public dissent. Asking people to inject themselves with something that was rushed out the door, most using novel technology, and whose results did not come remotely close to the early rhetoric (which included claims that you would not get infected or spread COVID if vaccinated) is not something that people would ever organically rush to adopt.
  - ActorNightly 1y ago
    China doesn't have extremely social culture. It has developed rapid economic growth and societally there are quite a few issues. The only country that had a very good societal response was Japan, as a result they had one of the lowest death rates in the world, even with their aging population, while having the law in place that pretty much only restrict government power to closing certain places, without being able to enforce quarantine. The initial decision of the government was even against imposing emergency powers, but eventually all parties agreed that emergency powers were necessary. >Asking people to inject themselves with something that was rushed out the door, most using novel technology, and whose results did not come remotely close to the early rhetoric (which included claims that you would not get infected or spread COVID if vaccinated) is not something that people would ever organically rush to adopt. And yet, those same people eat food that contains who knows what, was processed with random chemicals that may or may not cause cancer, buy meat from animals injected with chemicals that they don't know the contents of, smoke, drink alchol, vape. But suddenly, when it comes to taking a vaccine with technology that not only has been around for a while, but also adequately tested, the "government can't be trusted". The negative response to vaccine was never about government distrust, it was pretty much a very easy ideological line to draw in the sand. This is why every single anti vaxxer person on their way to the grave breathing through a ventilator was changing their mind and telling people to take the vaccine, because when shit actually gets real, ideology matters less. And equivalently now, maybe (and hopefully), when US is embroiled in civil unrest with martial law in place, and people can't feed their families, they will realize that having a black woman president would have been probably a much better outcome than voting for a convicted felon who sold them lies of individual liberty.
- blub 1y ago
  You couldn’t be more wrong about “In no other civilized society, requiring people to do something so small to actually care for each other would be considered a breach of civil rights”. First of all, a medical treatment which is enforced by the government is a major thing, no matter how small the intervention may appear. In Germany a limited mandate for healthcare workers was introduced. This didn’t force people to accept a vaccine, but they could be temporarily forbidden from coming to work. This was declared valid by the constitutional court. Forcing people to get the vaccine would clearly contradict the constitution on the other hand.
  - ActorNightly 1y ago
    I meant something small as in whatever mandates were implemented, not actually forcing people to take the vaccine. I fully agree with "either get vaccinated or stay away from people" mandates that were implemented.
- pkphilip 1y ago
  It wasn't just Americans who were against the vaccine mandates. Across the world many people were upset about being forced to take vaccines under threat of being forced out of their jobs, colleges etc
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - ActorNightly 1y ago
    Yes, every society has a few groups of people that think they should have the right to come to work or class and infect other people. Problem is, in America, that group is large enough to make significant impact on government.
  - justinrubek 1y ago
    I don't have a whole lot of sympathy when the alternative is: be forced to get sick under threat of being forced out of their jobs, colleges, etc. People still act like it's some common cold. My partner has nearly no taste left, years later. That's an entire sense, a fundamental perception, gone. Even if it was a common cold, I don't want to be forced to have it.
    - ndjeosibfb 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - DaSHacka 1y ago
      > Even if it was a common cold, I don't want to be forced to have it. Versus those of us that were forced to get the the vaccine lest suffer the social consequences and live with the physical repercussions?
      - ActorNightly 1y ago
        Nobody was forcing you get a vaccine - chill at home, live off savings, find a new job that doesn't require mandates. Or the conservative viewpoint now that one is entitled to have a job, and people MUST be nice to you? Sounds very leftist if you ask me.
- toast0 1y ago
  Public health policy for Americans that doesn't take into account the special characteristics of Americans is a mistake. It doesn't matter if the chosen policy would be the correct policy anywhere else. When you come out of the gate with masks aren't effective, just was your hands, then go to masks are mandatory, Americans are going to be upset because you're making them do something that you just told them not to do. They're also going to distrust future recommendations. When a new mandate comes through, they're going to be less likely to comply and more likely to make a big fuss. Combine that with less than effective outreach on reasonable expectations of the vaccine in terms of reduction of illness and immune response to the injection, and it's a recipie for mistrust. And since many of the mandates were found unenforcable, it weakens the potential power of future mandates, should there be a need.
- ndjeosibfb 1y ago
  [flagged]
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  >Americans are just special Yes, this is true

ActorNightly 1y ago

There was no mistake. In no other civilized society, requiring people to do something so small to actually care for each other would be considered a breach of civil rights. Americans are just special Unfortunately, because of how special Americans are, the outcome of being stuck with this current administration was inevitable. It was going to happen sooner or later. Im glad at least its happening sooner when Im still fairly young and have the flexibility to peace out if I need to.

somenameforme 1y ago
There was major backlash against mandates everywhere they were imposed, even including in places like China which has an extremely social culture paired with a government with authoritarian level power and relatively low tolerance for public dissent. Asking people to inject themselves with something that was rushed out the door, most using novel technology, and whose results did not come remotely close to the early rhetoric (which included claims that you would not get infected or spread COVID if vaccinated) is not something that people would ever organically rush to adopt.
- ActorNightly 1y ago
  China doesn't have extremely social culture. It has developed rapid economic growth and societally there are quite a few issues. The only country that had a very good societal response was Japan, as a result they had one of the lowest death rates in the world, even with their aging population, while having the law in place that pretty much only restrict government power to closing certain places, without being able to enforce quarantine. The initial decision of the government was even against imposing emergency powers, but eventually all parties agreed that emergency powers were necessary. >Asking people to inject themselves with something that was rushed out the door, most using novel technology, and whose results did not come remotely close to the early rhetoric (which included claims that you would not get infected or spread COVID if vaccinated) is not something that people would ever organically rush to adopt. And yet, those same people eat food that contains who knows what, was processed with random chemicals that may or may not cause cancer, buy meat from animals injected with chemicals that they don't know the contents of, smoke, drink alchol, vape. But suddenly, when it comes to taking a vaccine with technology that not only has been around for a while, but also adequately tested, the "government can't be trusted". The negative response to vaccine was never about government distrust, it was pretty much a very easy ideological line to draw in the sand. This is why every single anti vaxxer person on their way to the grave breathing through a ventilator was changing their mind and telling people to take the vaccine, because when shit actually gets real, ideology matters less. And equivalently now, maybe (and hopefully), when US is embroiled in civil unrest with martial law in place, and people can't feed their families, they will realize that having a black woman president would have been probably a much better outcome than voting for a convicted felon who sold them lies of individual liberty.
blub 1y ago
You couldn’t be more wrong about “In no other civilized society, requiring people to do something so small to actually care for each other would be considered a breach of civil rights”. First of all, a medical treatment which is enforced by the government is a major thing, no matter how small the intervention may appear. In Germany a limited mandate for healthcare workers was introduced. This didn’t force people to accept a vaccine, but they could be temporarily forbidden from coming to work. This was declared valid by the constitutional court. Forcing people to get the vaccine would clearly contradict the constitution on the other hand.
- ActorNightly 1y ago
  I meant something small as in whatever mandates were implemented, not actually forcing people to take the vaccine. I fully agree with "either get vaccinated or stay away from people" mandates that were implemented.
pkphilip 1y ago
It wasn't just Americans who were against the vaccine mandates. Across the world many people were upset about being forced to take vaccines under threat of being forced out of their jobs, colleges etc
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- ActorNightly 1y ago
  Yes, every society has a few groups of people that think they should have the right to come to work or class and infect other people. Problem is, in America, that group is large enough to make significant impact on government.
- justinrubek 1y ago
  I don't have a whole lot of sympathy when the alternative is: be forced to get sick under threat of being forced out of their jobs, colleges, etc. People still act like it's some common cold. My partner has nearly no taste left, years later. That's an entire sense, a fundamental perception, gone. Even if it was a common cold, I don't want to be forced to have it.
  - ndjeosibfb 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - DaSHacka 1y ago
    > Even if it was a common cold, I don't want to be forced to have it. Versus those of us that were forced to get the the vaccine lest suffer the social consequences and live with the physical repercussions?
    - ActorNightly 1y ago
      Nobody was forcing you get a vaccine - chill at home, live off savings, find a new job that doesn't require mandates. Or the conservative viewpoint now that one is entitled to have a job, and people MUST be nice to you? Sounds very leftist if you ask me.
toast0 1y ago
Public health policy for Americans that doesn't take into account the special characteristics of Americans is a mistake. It doesn't matter if the chosen policy would be the correct policy anywhere else. When you come out of the gate with masks aren't effective, just was your hands, then go to masks are mandatory, Americans are going to be upset because you're making them do something that you just told them not to do. They're also going to distrust future recommendations. When a new mandate comes through, they're going to be less likely to comply and more likely to make a big fuss. Combine that with less than effective outreach on reasonable expectations of the vaccine in terms of reduction of illness and immune response to the injection, and it's a recipie for mistrust. And since many of the mandates were found unenforcable, it weakens the potential power of future mandates, should there be a need.
ndjeosibfb 1y ago
[flagged]
ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
>Americans are just special Yes, this is true