7 ms·

I'm not religious so I'll admit I don't "get it." It's a neat idea. I'll admit, I especially don't get this part: > The series of practically invisible wires

I'm not religious so I'll admit I don't "get it." It's a neat idea. I'll admit, I especially don't get this part: > The series of practically invisible wires becomes a necessity that “benefits the most vulnerable people of the community.” He sees it not only as a way for communities to come together, but also as a way for the more affluent to give back. The eruv is funded entirely by the Jewish community, with a considerable portion of that support coming from wealthy philanthropists. Giving back to your community, sure. Benefiting the most vulnerable people of the community seems a bit much though. I feel like there are other ways that money could be spent. All in all though, there are nonprofit religious organizations who spend an unreasonable amount of money on things that don't matter (private jets), so I'm not at all complaining about something that helps that communal feeling like this.

serf 1y ago
>Benefiting the most vulnerable people of the community seems a bit much though. it makes sense contextually. if there is some holy manifest that urges people to do a thing even when they're old/invalid/bed-ridden/sick, and there are people that will devoutly follow this rule, then it stands to reason that those people will feel a burden eased when part of the manifest is accomplished automatically.
giraffe_lady 1y ago
> benefits the most vulnerable people of the community. I suspect the author may have misunderstood what this is euphemistically referring to. I think the original source means women. A lot of routine elements of childcare fall within this restriction, and in conservative communities that would be the exclusive domain of women. Without the eruv women with young children would be confined to their home during this part of the week.
- AStonesThrow 1y ago
  > confined to their home during this part of the week You say that like it is a bad thing There is a related concept in Eastern Orthodoxy called oikonomia, or a relaxation of the laws. Roman Catholics or Episcopalians may know this as "dispensation". When the law becomes very complex and there is a concerted effort to get legalistic and eventually you end up with circumventions that are worthy of publishing news articles to the goyim, eventually you begin to think about dispensations or oikonomia from the leadership in order to relax the rules of Shabbat observance and the Day of Rest. And undoubtedly that is the crux of whence originated Reform Judaism and Conservative Judaism. Judaism is more akin to Islam than Christianity in the particular aspect that it is not unified and not organized under one particular visible head, like the Pope or a Patriarch. Not since the Destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70. During the Second Tempe Period there was definitely a unification of Jews and a singular doctrinal authority. But in today's synagogue system with rabbis interpreting Torah and Talmud, it is quite federated and decentralized, and in New York in particular there are congregations following individual rebbes and having unique beliefs inside the walls of their synagogue, but also councils/conferences of Jew leaders who team up to build this Eruv Wall and make America pay for it.
  - theMMaI 1y ago
    Seems more akin to Christianity then, Pope is only recognized by roman catholics, and there's ridiculous amounts of Christianity doctrines that each interpret the writings differently.
    - labster 1y ago
      That’s not entirely true, the Orthodox Christians recognize the Bishop of Rome as being an equal to any of their patriarchs. Protestant Christians run the gamut from “it’s complicated” with the pope to “the pope is the literal devil”. Some denominations have no central authority at all, and qualifications for priesthood is determined entirely by the local community.
  - giraffe_lady 1y ago
    I've been eastern orthodox roughly my whole life so I'm familiar with economia. But I don't think that's the correct lens to view this through. I'm not as informed about judaism but I believe most practitioners have a very different relationship to rules and the place of them in their belief. I do think it's a bad thing to confine women to their homes though. I'm in favor of whatever theological tools individual believers and bodies of believers decide to use to break from this historical norm.
    - AStonesThrow 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - giraffe_lady 1y ago
        This is a conversation to have with your confessor not with strangers in public. Or maybe you should draw a comic about it? addition for people coming later: this was a response to an antisemitic screed that the other user has since removed through editing.
        AStonesThrow 1y ago
egypturnash 1y ago
The article really neglects to explain what an eruv is and why you would want it. Wikipedia's much more helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruv Basically if you are an observant Jew then you are forbidden from doing work on Saturdays. There are some extremely specific rules about what "work" is. One kind of forbidden work is taking things outside of your house; the eruv symbolically turns most of the city into "home" so you can do things like, say, take your baby for a weekend stroll on a nice day or walk outside with a cane. It's more nuanced than this, there's a whole bunch of rules about what you can't do and about how big an eruv can be and what you have to do to make it valid. (I am not Jewish so do not ask me for any further details on this.)
- vrosas 1y ago
  My Jewish friend once told me, specifically discussing this wire, that Jews consider finding loopholes in their own rules a national pastime. The same thing goes for the hotels where someone is paid to wave their hand in front of automatic doors so the guests don't force the door to "work" for them or the elevators that run 24/7, stopping at every floor so they don't have to even work by pressing a button.
  - macinjosh 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - rjbwork 1y ago
      A very silly thing to say. The Hasids of New York are some of the most prominent anti-zionists in the United States.
      - zxexz 1y ago
        Judging by the previous posts/comments of the user you are replying to, I doubt they are capable of understanding your comment, if they are even a real person.
    - deleted 1y ago
ofalkaed 1y ago
During Shabbat the members of the Jewish community who are most vulnerable are the ones who take it too far? Technically you are not supposed to even carry your keys, medications, babies, anything, so to strictly follow the rules means either being a shutin for the day or taking stupid risks which could easily cause undo long term hardships or even death. For the most part it is just updating the laws to modern society and the move away from the more communal living arrangements of the past.
- AStonesThrow 1y ago
  [flagged]
rmason 1y ago
I remember attending a tech conference years ago in Dearborn, Michigan. One of the speakers was a devout Jew from NY City. On Saturday he taped the lock open on his hotel room so he wouldn't need to use a key. This drove hotel security nuts and one of the conference admins had to get involved because the hotels employees who were all Arabic did not accept his explanation. They were certain he was up to something shady. He and his wife had brought extra food and invited the conference admin and myself to dinner in their room. I remember it as a very special night and I am still friends with them to this day.
- emmelaich 1y ago
  There are hotels and apartment blocks that have physical locks as well as the swipe card. So you can use the physical key on the Sabbath.
  - theshrike79 1y ago
    So turning a key to open a door isn't work, but pushing an elevator button is?
    - gizmo686 1y ago
      Yes. There are several explanations for this, but the most popular ones are: 1) Making fires is prohibited work. Activating an electric switch causes a spark, which is kind of like a fire. 2) We have a tradition of considering using electricity to be work. 3) This is stupid, not using electricity is more work. Just push the button. 4) This is stupid, but having a day when we aren't all on our phones is nice, so let's keep all of the silly rules to not lose that
      - xorcist 1y ago
        > Activating an electric switch causes a spark, which is kind of like a fire. So is walking on a carpet and removing your sweater and almost anything involving fabrics and motion. Is it really a useful definition of "fire" and "spark"? Most people think of those as different things. Fire implies oxygen, you put out fires with heavy blankets or with nitrogen gas since time immemorial. Sparks, as in tiny plasma discharges, does not require oxygen and can not be put out the same way.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

serf 1y ago

>Benefiting the most vulnerable people of the community seems a bit much though. it makes sense contextually. if there is some holy manifest that urges people to do a thing even when they're old/invalid/bed-ridden/sick, and there are people that will devoutly follow this rule, then it stands to reason that those people will feel a burden eased when part of the manifest is accomplished automatically.

giraffe_lady 1y ago

> benefits the most vulnerable people of the community. I suspect the author may have misunderstood what this is euphemistically referring to. I think the original source means women. A lot of routine elements of childcare fall within this restriction, and in conservative communities that would be the exclusive domain of women. Without the eruv women with young children would be confined to their home during this part of the week.

AStonesThrow 1y ago
> confined to their home during this part of the week You say that like it is a bad thing There is a related concept in Eastern Orthodoxy called oikonomia, or a relaxation of the laws. Roman Catholics or Episcopalians may know this as "dispensation". When the law becomes very complex and there is a concerted effort to get legalistic and eventually you end up with circumventions that are worthy of publishing news articles to the goyim, eventually you begin to think about dispensations or oikonomia from the leadership in order to relax the rules of Shabbat observance and the Day of Rest. And undoubtedly that is the crux of whence originated Reform Judaism and Conservative Judaism. Judaism is more akin to Islam than Christianity in the particular aspect that it is not unified and not organized under one particular visible head, like the Pope or a Patriarch. Not since the Destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70. During the Second Tempe Period there was definitely a unification of Jews and a singular doctrinal authority. But in today's synagogue system with rabbis interpreting Torah and Talmud, it is quite federated and decentralized, and in New York in particular there are congregations following individual rebbes and having unique beliefs inside the walls of their synagogue, but also councils/conferences of Jew leaders who team up to build this Eruv Wall and make America pay for it.
- theMMaI 1y ago
  Seems more akin to Christianity then, Pope is only recognized by roman catholics, and there's ridiculous amounts of Christianity doctrines that each interpret the writings differently.
  - labster 1y ago
    That’s not entirely true, the Orthodox Christians recognize the Bishop of Rome as being an equal to any of their patriarchs. Protestant Christians run the gamut from “it’s complicated” with the pope to “the pope is the literal devil”. Some denominations have no central authority at all, and qualifications for priesthood is determined entirely by the local community.
- giraffe_lady 1y ago
  I've been eastern orthodox roughly my whole life so I'm familiar with economia. But I don't think that's the correct lens to view this through. I'm not as informed about judaism but I believe most practitioners have a very different relationship to rules and the place of them in their belief. I do think it's a bad thing to confine women to their homes though. I'm in favor of whatever theological tools individual believers and bodies of believers decide to use to break from this historical norm.
  - AStonesThrow 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - giraffe_lady 1y ago
      This is a conversation to have with your confessor not with strangers in public. Or maybe you should draw a comic about it? addition for people coming later: this was a response to an antisemitic screed that the other user has since removed through editing.
      - AStonesThrow 1y ago

egypturnash 1y ago

The article really neglects to explain what an eruv is and why you would want it. Wikipedia's much more helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruv Basically if you are an observant Jew then you are forbidden from doing work on Saturdays. There are some extremely specific rules about what "work" is. One kind of forbidden work is taking things outside of your house; the eruv symbolically turns most of the city into "home" so you can do things like, say, take your baby for a weekend stroll on a nice day or walk outside with a cane. It's more nuanced than this, there's a whole bunch of rules about what you can't do and about how big an eruv can be and what you have to do to make it valid. (I am not Jewish so do not ask me for any further details on this.)

vrosas 1y ago
My Jewish friend once told me, specifically discussing this wire, that Jews consider finding loopholes in their own rules a national pastime. The same thing goes for the hotels where someone is paid to wave their hand in front of automatic doors so the guests don't force the door to "work" for them or the elevators that run 24/7, stopping at every floor so they don't have to even work by pressing a button.
- macinjosh 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - rjbwork 1y ago
    A very silly thing to say. The Hasids of New York are some of the most prominent anti-zionists in the United States.
    - zxexz 1y ago
      Judging by the previous posts/comments of the user you are replying to, I doubt they are capable of understanding your comment, if they are even a real person.
  - deleted 1y ago

ofalkaed 1y ago

During Shabbat the members of the Jewish community who are most vulnerable are the ones who take it too far? Technically you are not supposed to even carry your keys, medications, babies, anything, so to strictly follow the rules means either being a shutin for the day or taking stupid risks which could easily cause undo long term hardships or even death. For the most part it is just updating the laws to modern society and the move away from the more communal living arrangements of the past.

AStonesThrow 1y ago
[flagged]

rmason 1y ago

I remember attending a tech conference years ago in Dearborn, Michigan. One of the speakers was a devout Jew from NY City. On Saturday he taped the lock open on his hotel room so he wouldn't need to use a key. This drove hotel security nuts and one of the conference admins had to get involved because the hotels employees who were all Arabic did not accept his explanation. They were certain he was up to something shady. He and his wife had brought extra food and invited the conference admin and myself to dinner in their room. I remember it as a very special night and I am still friends with them to this day.

emmelaich 1y ago
There are hotels and apartment blocks that have physical locks as well as the swipe card. So you can use the physical key on the Sabbath.
- theshrike79 1y ago
  So turning a key to open a door isn't work, but pushing an elevator button is?
  - gizmo686 1y ago
    Yes. There are several explanations for this, but the most popular ones are: 1) Making fires is prohibited work. Activating an electric switch causes a spark, which is kind of like a fire. 2) We have a tradition of considering using electricity to be work. 3) This is stupid, not using electricity is more work. Just push the button. 4) This is stupid, but having a day when we aren't all on our phones is nice, so let's keep all of the silly rules to not lose that
    - xorcist 1y ago
      > Activating an electric switch causes a spark, which is kind of like a fire. So is walking on a carpet and removing your sweater and almost anything involving fabrics and motion. Is it really a useful definition of "fire" and "spark"? Most people think of those as different things. Fire implies oxygen, you put out fires with heavy blankets or with nitrogen gas since time immemorial. Sparks, as in tiny plasma discharges, does not require oxygen and can not be put out the same way.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]