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BYD's Five-Minute Charging Puts China in the Lead for EVs
- jqpabc123 1y ago[flagged]
- fullshark 1y agoWow actual innovation instead of vaporware hype to pump the stock price...what a unusual way to run a tech company.
- amriksohata 1y agoI know we don't like Tesla at the moment, but lets not exaggerate, Tesla bought 250kw chargers and thats innovation at the time and BYD is still behind in terms of car quality compared to Teslas, BYD pricing is almost 40% cheaper - theres a reason, quality and service.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- agumonkey 1y agoIt's odd to think that Musk could have coasted doing a bit of innovation here and there and would have cemented himself as a great figure. Tesla really had a good stream of bold innovative moves along it's early path.
- mamonster 1y agoSerious question: I've never been in a BYD(hard to get in Switzerland), but I've been in all the Teslas. The Tesla build quality is atrocious when compared to BMW, Mercedes or Audi. Are you saying BYD is worse than that?
- locusm 1y agoIt’s far better in the Seal and Sea Lion.
- maxglute 1y agoThe joke/reputation of entry-level BYD in PRC a few years ago is that it's QA is almost as bad as Tesla from Shanghai, which has better QA than Tesla from other gigafactories. That was from when BYD was scaling up from 500k to 3million per year. High end BYD were always fine. Tesla's poor QA for premium brand is still running meme.
- lancewiggs 1y agoBYD is moving so quickly - the ones I’ve seen recently in NZ are surprisingly innovative, superb quality. Obviously not all markets are getting all vehicles, and the best are yet to leave China. Check out the EV Shark and Denza D9.
- dzhiurgis 1y agoIm NZ too. BYD Tang L is pretty impressive technically (coming soon). I almost want even larger, more powerful vehicle than my Model Y. But can’t imagine dealing with its software and uncertain future. Also I’d rather support Musk than Chinese. I drove Atto3, which is older vehicle now. UX is nowhere close to Tesla, but I’m keen to try newer ones.
- beAbU 1y ago> Also I’d rather support Musk than Chinese. There are other EV makers out there, you know.
- dzhiurgis 1y agoHyundai/Kia are overpriced here and had some major failures so they can't be trusted (tho I do like Kia EV9 a little bit). Germans are overpriced by solid 2-3x. Japanese EVs are a total joke. Am I missing out someone?
- beAbU 1y agoThe french? The italians? The other american ev makers like Ford, Rivian, Chevy and so on?
- dzhiurgis 1y agoNeither French nor Italians have any serious EVs that I know of. Ford had some good clearance discounts on Mach-E (same with Polestar) here, made it a reasonable deal. Rivian seems expensive in US to start with, in NZ it's waaaay past most peoples buying power. Dunno if Chevy is available here at all.
- const_cast 1y agoI don't know, Tesla's are notoriously low quality. At the end of the day these are American made cars, which is really the bottom of the barrel of vehicle quality.
- daveguy 1y agoTesla has garbage fit, finish and build. They are run by a cheap-out scammer who puts more energy into social media than his business endeavors. 250kw in 2020 vs 1000kw (4x) in 2025. When is Tesla coming out with a 1MW charger? Sell your stock if you're still making that mistake.
- ponector 1y agoJust curious, what exactly is worse in BYD cars comparing with tesla? (Comparing similar price range, like top to top model) Some of Tesla vehicles are as innovative as ridiculous and illegal(in many countries).
- scarab92 1y agoI’ve spent some time in a Juniper Model Y and BYD Sealion 7. The most notable areas where BYDs are still not competitive with Tesla are the interior (fit and finish is worse, the styling is unrefined and busy), the software (a buggy lightly skinned version of android), the suspension (BYD feels floaty whereas the Model Y feels grounded and responsive), and parts availability. If something goes wrong with BYDs in Australia, you can be without a car for months while waiting for parts to slowly steam across the ocean. The BYD is cheaper, but only by about 10%, which is not enough in my view to offset the overall feeling of still being a work in progress. That said, I really hate the onscreen gear selector in the Model Y. I’m fine with most controls being onscreen but I want a physical control for gear slection.
- ponector 1y agoAnd yet, Tesla is missing basic features like HUD.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 1y agoMaybe it (BYD Auto Co., Ltd.) is not s so-called "tech" company. Maybe it is a an auto manufacturer that was aquired by a battery manufacturer (BYD Company). What does "tech company" even mean. Honest question. Perhaps it means different things to different people. Perhaps it is highly ambiguous. Perhaps it is associated with internet hype. BYD Auto's history seems to originate with a defense contractor, Norinco Group. It does not appear to have relied on internet hype. No connection to Silicon Valley. Unlike Tesla.
- Ericson2314 1y agoAt some point, we just need to admit our auto industry has completely failed multiple times, has exhausted all forgiveness, and rip down the trade barriers. For those worried about national self-sufficiency, the answer can be public transit, not cars.
- NewJazz 1y agoOr the answer can be aggressive pentesting for foreign tech and mandating network kill switches. But that's too much work. Let's just trust that Ford can design a secure system and pay them 100x what we would have paid the pentesters.
- rfoo 1y ago> mandating network kill switches It's really funny that China made non-trivial amount of strategic decisions on the assumption that US tech do have network kill switches [0], including using it solely to justify protectionism, while nobody on the earth are crazy enough to do this, we all just call them out, "just an excuse to justify protectionism", then all at a sudden here we are, trying to say "mandating network kill switches" could be a good idea. [0] Use OpenAI Deep Research or rivals and investigate the word "自主可控".
- NewJazz 1y agoHi sorry I think I may have used the wrong terminology. I meant hardware switches to make sure a device stays offline when you tell it to, not switches to turn off the internet totally.
- CamperBob2 1y agoNational self-sufficiency is about being able to do things like this, particularly in times of emergent crisis or war. And we can say we are able to do it only if we actually do it. And no, the answer cannot be public transit. Public transit won't be a valid response to the next Pearl Harbor.
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- absurdo 1y agoI’m disappointed and confused as to why countries would impose things like 100% tariffs on vehicles, especially Chinese ones. Their labor force is massive and they can iterate and build much better machines than anyone else, so rather than a tariff helping the local economy, it’s going to cripple it in a relatively short amount of time due to lateral advancements in technology that facilitate every-day cars being built. Smaller countries don’t have the manpower to keep up. So what’s the point of this? Not talking about US in this case.
- cma 1y ago> it’s going to cripple it in a relatively short amount of time due to lateral advancements in technology that facilitate every-day cars being built Isn't China free to build a car factory here, with their technology?
- readthenotes1 1y agoMass unemployment of former car workers is an existential threat to governments.
- CamperBob2 1y agoSee, the thing is, that will happen anyway. The rest of us might as well get some decent, cheap cars out of it.
- ordx 1y agoCan someone with knowledge comment if charging a battery this way will significantly decrease its longevity? I remember reading that charging with a low current is advisable to preserve battery health.
- cjblomqvist 1y agoAccording to the article: Its latest refrigerant cooling system helps deliver a 35 percent gain in high-temperature lifespan, ensuring that megawatt charging won’t degrade the battery.
- nicolaslem 1y agoA good rule of thumbs with most battery chemistries is that they tend to not like both extremes. This is true for temperature, charge capacity, slightly less true for charging current as very low current tend not to degrade the battery.
- AtlasBarfed 1y agoRecharging is at some level an issue with current delivery, not just the chemistry. EV batteries are massive arrays of individual cells, so a lot of recharging problems is having the wiring to deliver the current to the batteries optimally. Then, some chemistries/designs have better cycle endurance, some can probably recharge faster at given depletion levels. When charging an almost totally discharged battery, there's lots of "slots" for the incoming charge to fill, but as it fills up, it will inevitably take more time to locate a "slot" to occupy. Solid state and semi-solid state may be at play here, since a solid state battery is theoretically more durable as well. Or, to your point, it is a marketing stunt that doesn't care about cycle endurance. How would we tell? Battery reporting is still horrendous at delineating the tradeoffs/limitations per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28025930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28025930 but hoping that mainstream media don't "gee whiz" science and technology reporting is simply not going to happen, especially in the clickbait era.
- threemux 1y agoThis doesn't represent a groundbreaking advance despite the framing of the article. They're getting faster speed by pushing a huge amount of power to the battery (1MW!). Supplying this kind of energy at scale is not possible currently. So they could deploy a few of these around but they simply can't be ubiquitous. Not to mention charging curves make a big difference as do real-world conditions. Do you get full speed if it's below freezing? What about over 100 degrees F? Both are common in the US and well-handled by gas stations. Oh, and finally, 5 minutes is still slower than filling up a car's tank.
- TimorousBestie 1y ago> Do you get full speed if it's below freezing? What about over 100 degrees F? Both are common in the US and well-handled by gas stations. China also has extreme climates.
- threemux 1y agoGood point - so those questions hold for China too. They weren't covered in the article.
- rat9988 1y agoYes, but you should refrain from claims as "it is not ground breaking because X" if you haven't researched the topic. Not covered by the article doesn't prove anything. This kind of articles is supposed to be an introduction to the topic.
- 3eb7988a1663 1y agoDo charging stations install buffer batteries or do they pull directly from the grid?
- rjsw 1y agoBig capacitors might help.
- jeffbee 1y agoThere are already some high-power charging stations with their own demand-side battery storage, here in California. But this assumes low duty cycle. The higher the load factor, the less relevant the battery.
- detourdog 1y agoMost of the DC fast chargers I use have big generators hidden behind bushes.
- jeffbee 1y agoWhere is this? I have only used charging stations in dense urban areas and they lack generators, or bushes. But the amount of pad-mounted equipment you need to interface a charging station with the grid is surprisingly large. I think the tons of copper etc should be charged to the embodied carbon of the cars.
- detourdog 1y agoMount Laurel, NJ. for one. I also do a lot of driving in New England. New England's power infrastructure is pretty dated. The town I live one could dial just the last 4 digits of a phone number and get connected due to everyone being on a single telephone exchange until sometime in the 1980's(not electrical but exemplifies rural infrastructure.
- pmcjones 1y agoSo diesel-electric cars.
- amazingamazing 1y agostill don't get the point of huge batteries. in USA average commute is about 20 miles one way. seems like a 75mile battery + gas is both more practical and requires less infra. edit: it seems some are confused. I'm saying a PHEV is superior to BEV.
- onionisafruit 1y agopeople want to use the same car for road trips or just the ability to run a bunch of errands in one day without worrying about range.
- SoftTalker 1y agoI also don’t understand 700+ HP motors and <3 sec 0-60mph times. Who needs that?
- detourdog 1y agoThis is very true. I would give up acceleration for higher range. I think high acceleration is only needed to about 35 miles an hour.
- RhysU 1y agoYou're in the left lane at 70 MPH passing a long line of cars. Some idiot comes up behind you at 90+ and rides your tail. Good thing you could accelerate quickly starting from 70 to finish passing the line then move over into the right lane.
- gnabgib 1y agoRelated: Tesla rival BYD launches five-minute battery in $30k model (60 points, 2 months ago, 58 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43670271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43670271 BYD unveils battery system that charges EVs in five minutes (24 points, 3 months ago, 13 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43390262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43390262 BYD and CATL aim to launch new EV batteries with 6C charge rate (38 points, 11 months ago, 47 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40706337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40706337
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- poisonborz 1y agoIt only needs 1360 kilowatt per charging pole... won't happen at scale. It's like those LCD navigation systems in 80s cars - impressive futuristic tech, but not what it actually brought that change.
- DiogenesKynikos 1y agoI don't understand why 5-minute charging is even needed. Does anyone actually drive more than 400 km without stopping for at least 15 minutes to stretch their legs, go to the bathroom, and eat a snack?