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> corruption is actually considered a benefit! This is because the loyalists interpret this as "we" are winning and "they" are losing. I think the end goal is

> corruption is actually considered a benefit! This is because the loyalists interpret this as "we" are winning and "they" are losing. I think the end goal is domination. From https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 : It’s best to understand that fascists see hypocrisy as a virtue. It’s how they signal that the things they are doing to people were never meant to be equally applied. It’s not an inconsistency. It’s very consistent to the only true fascist value, which is domination. It’s very important to understand, fascists don’t just see hypocrisy as a necessary evil or an unintended side-effect. It’s the purpose. The ability to enjoy yourself the thing you’re able to deny others, because you dominate, is the whole point. For fascists, hypocrisy is a great virtue — the greatest. https://hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/hypocrisy-and-fascism-2018-08-12 https://hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/hypocrisy-and-fascism-2018-0...

dralley 1y ago
>It’s best to understand that fascists see hypocrisy as a virtue. It’s how they signal that the things they are doing to people were never meant to be equally applied. For my friends - everything, for my enemies - the law.
- pinkmuffinere 1y ago
  For my true friends, champagne! For my sham friends, true pain.
  - kennyadam 1y ago
    Close, but the correct version has better wordplay: "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends."
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  I used to love this pithy quote but reflecting on it more recently this doesn't seem like something limited to fascists or fascism. Indeed, this kind of thinking is used by those of any political leaning when ideology becomes more important than principles. An obvious example is the USSR.
  - wyre 1y ago
    Red fascism is a term that has been used to equate Stalinism with fascism, so maybe the quote still has merit?
  - consumer451 1y ago
    This is a great example of the horseshoe theory of politics [0], which I believe in very strongly. I made a separate post if anyone cares to discuss it. [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44214040 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44214040
    - ahf8Aithaex7Nai 1y ago
      It should be a trident theory.
      - consumer451 1y ago
        If you don't mind, could you expand on this a bit?
        ahf8Aithaex7Nai 1y ago
        > I see it as the gateway to people realizing that the left/right 1D line, and even the political compass, are ridiculous. When this theory is used in discourse, it is always a matter of suggesting that the left fringe and the right fringe are equally to be rejected. Stalin and Hitler, communism and fascism, class struggle and racial theory, Das Kapital and Hitler's Mein Kampf, dictatorship of the proletariat and Nazi dictatorship: the righteous liberal democrat must keep his distance from both extremes in equal measure. The golden path lies in the balanced middle. I am tired of criticizing this nonsense. It is an ideological lie. The trident means that there is just as much ideology, corruption, political dysfunctionality and all kinds of drivers of suffering, misery and resentment in the supposed political center. But it is very well hidden because it wears a kind of ideological cloak: the horseshoe theory. So to respond to your sentence I quoted above: the horseshoe theory IS the political compass that should be ridiculed.
KennyBlanken 1y ago
[flagged]
- _heimdall 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - wat10000 1y ago
    They’re different orders of magnitude. Biden was elected legitimately. Parties can nominate whoever they want, so shenanigans with primaries, while distasteful, are completely legitimate. Likewise, keeping Biden’s mental state from the public is ugly but legitimate. Voters can, and did, punish these actions. Trump tried to cheat his way to keeping power. Even if you don’t blame him for the violent attempt, it’s well established that he made major efforts before that to change the outcome by more peaceful means that were just as illegitimate. Playing stupid games within the system means you lose elections and either reform or get replaced. Playing stupid games subverting the system means you don’t have to worry about elections anymore if you succeed. I’m about a million times more concerned about the latter.
    - _heimdall 1y ago
      Do you not believe Trump was elected legitimately? I totally understand and share many of the concerns over the insurrection and what happened around it, but Trump didn't take office in 2020 and wasn't reelected until 2024.
      - wat10000 1y ago
        He was. Where do you see me saying otherwise?
        _heimdall 1y ago
        > Biden was elected legitimately. I must have misread you last comment. I read this as a comparison implying that Biden wasn't legitimately elected but you just meant it to set up the point.
wefinh 1y ago
Yeah, only the issue here is that @realFascists are in opposition to Trump. And reading this text in that light - it check out and not really a news. Also, frankly, you folks need to stop monopolizing these topics, based on highly polarized ideological filter, because even before Trump there was dissatisfaction about how Musk monopolized NASA contracts on the promise, that he would deliver more efficient and cheaper solution, while in reality the result is that NASA is currently paying more for Musks private solutions, than when it had to do it by itself. There are sure many other options to what Musk offers and if Trump is there to break up that monopoly and open up the market, then it is a win situation.
- avmich 1y ago
  Can you clarify what reality you're talking about? How NASA would do it cheaper?
- shigawire 1y ago
  Doublethink
- Cipater 1y ago
  >there was dissatisfaction about how Musk monopolized NASA contracts on the promise, that he would deliver more efficient and cheaper solution, while in reality the result is that NASA is currently paying more for Musks private solutions, than when it had to do it by itself SLS, NASA's rocket, costs $2.5 billion, PER LAUNCH.
- wqaatwt 1y ago
  That’s all very nice but according to Trump this only suddenly became a problem only a few weeks ago due to some reason. So whatever you are saying has absolutely no relevance to this decision making. If Musk continued licking his boots he’d be doing fine..
ETH_start 1y ago
[flagged]
- pessimist 1y ago
  The Democratic Governor of California denounced them publicly and stopped the effort. Despite Musk raising millions and campaigning viciously against the Democrats the administration kept all of SpaceX contracts and Tesla ev subsidies. In fact the IRA benefited Tesla disproportionately. Both sides are NOT the same. One is fascist and the other is not
  - ETH_start 1y ago
    The Democratic White House chose to not invite Tesla to their EV Summit. That was not political? The Democratic DoJ and Democrat DAGs prosecuted dozens of former Trump administration officials and Trump allies, and even Trump himself: Trump Administration Officials: Michael Flynn – Former National Security Advisor Stephen K. Bannon – Former White House Chief Strategist & Campaign Advisor Mark Meadows – Former White House Chief of Staff Jeffrey Clark – Former Acting Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Division, U.S. Department of Justice Peter Navarro – Former White House Trade Advisor Trump Allies: Paul Manafort – Former Trump Campaign Chairman George Papadopoulos – Former Trump Campaign Foreign Policy Advisor Rick Gates – Former Trump Deputy Campaign Chairman Roger Stone – Longtime Trump Advisor and Friend Michael Cohen – Former Personal Attorney to Donald Trump Elliott Broidy – Former Trump Fundraiser Rudolph Giuliani – Attorney to Trump, Former Mayor of New York City Waltine Nauta – Personal Aide to Trump Carlos De Oliveira – Property Manager at Mar-a-Lago Sidney Powell – Trump Campaign Attorney Kenneth Chesebro – Trump Attorney Jenna Ellis – Trump Campaign Attorney John Eastman – Trump Attorney Dinesh D'Souza – Conservative Commentator, Trump Supporter Joseph M. Arpaio – Former Sheriff of Maricopa County, Arizona, Trump Supporter Ray Smith III – Trump Attorney Cathy Latham – Fake Elector, Coffee County GOP Leader Robert Cheeley – Trump Attorney David Shafer – Fake Elector, Former Georgia GOP Chair Mike Roman – Trump Campaign Staffer Shawn Still – Fake Elector, Then-Georgia State Senator Scott Hall – Atlanta Bail Bondsman Misty Hampton – Former Coffee County Elections Supervisor Steve Lee – Pastor from Illinois Harrison Floyd – Black Voices for Trump Leader Trevian Kutti – Publicist from Chicago I'm sure this was just Democrats following the law, with no bias, right? This kind of narrative that you're forwarding now where the Republican Party are fascists and Trump is a threat to democracy is exactly the kind of mentality that was used to elicit this enormous persecution of Trump and officials near him. Meanwhile, the real elephant in the room is always ignored: The Democrats shovel hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money to large unions in order to secure their support and win elections. This is textbook corruption. https://politifact.com/factchecks/2022/dec/14/kevin-brady/bidens-36-billion-to-save-teamsters-fund-from-inso/ https://politifact.com/factchecks/2022/dec/14/kevin-brady/bi... The recipients of USAID grants? All Democrats. Same story all across DC. That's why 92.4% of DC voted for Harris. DC, meanwhile, has a per capita GDP of $250,000.
tempodox 1y ago
I think double standards would be a better term than hypocricy. Hypocricy would imply the pretense to be bound by certain rules, but the whole point of fascism is that those in power are not bound by any rules. They only make rules to bind others. I don't see any hypocricy in the openly advertised corruption of the current administration, it's just plain evil of the “we do it because we can” sort.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
andyjohnson0 1y ago
> I think the end goal is domination. From https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 I don't know whether Trump can accurately be described as a fascist, but its been clear to me since his first term that domination is the only thing that matters to him. The obscene wealth and the swaggering deceitfulness and the gold-plated bathrooms are just the secondary outcomes of his need to dominate. Domineering father-figure; raised as a sociopath; given a lot of money. Kind of inevitable.

dralley 1y ago

>It’s best to understand that fascists see hypocrisy as a virtue. It’s how they signal that the things they are doing to people were never meant to be equally applied. For my friends - everything, for my enemies - the law.

pinkmuffinere 1y ago
For my true friends, champagne! For my sham friends, true pain.
- kennyadam 1y ago
  Close, but the correct version has better wordplay: "Champagne for my real friends, real pain for my sham friends."
AlexandrB 1y ago
I used to love this pithy quote but reflecting on it more recently this doesn't seem like something limited to fascists or fascism. Indeed, this kind of thinking is used by those of any political leaning when ideology becomes more important than principles. An obvious example is the USSR.
- wyre 1y ago
  Red fascism is a term that has been used to equate Stalinism with fascism, so maybe the quote still has merit?
- consumer451 1y ago
  This is a great example of the horseshoe theory of politics [0], which I believe in very strongly. I made a separate post if anyone cares to discuss it. [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44214040 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44214040
  - ahf8Aithaex7Nai 1y ago
    It should be a trident theory.
    - consumer451 1y ago
      If you don't mind, could you expand on this a bit?
      - ahf8Aithaex7Nai 1y ago
        > I see it as the gateway to people realizing that the left/right 1D line, and even the political compass, are ridiculous. When this theory is used in discourse, it is always a matter of suggesting that the left fringe and the right fringe are equally to be rejected. Stalin and Hitler, communism and fascism, class struggle and racial theory, Das Kapital and Hitler's Mein Kampf, dictatorship of the proletariat and Nazi dictatorship: the righteous liberal democrat must keep his distance from both extremes in equal measure. The golden path lies in the balanced middle. I am tired of criticizing this nonsense. It is an ideological lie. The trident means that there is just as much ideology, corruption, political dysfunctionality and all kinds of drivers of suffering, misery and resentment in the supposed political center. But it is very well hidden because it wears a kind of ideological cloak: the horseshoe theory. So to respond to your sentence I quoted above: the horseshoe theory IS the political compass that should be ridiculed.

KennyBlanken 1y ago

[flagged]

_heimdall 1y ago
[flagged]
- wat10000 1y ago
  They’re different orders of magnitude. Biden was elected legitimately. Parties can nominate whoever they want, so shenanigans with primaries, while distasteful, are completely legitimate. Likewise, keeping Biden’s mental state from the public is ugly but legitimate. Voters can, and did, punish these actions. Trump tried to cheat his way to keeping power. Even if you don’t blame him for the violent attempt, it’s well established that he made major efforts before that to change the outcome by more peaceful means that were just as illegitimate. Playing stupid games within the system means you lose elections and either reform or get replaced. Playing stupid games subverting the system means you don’t have to worry about elections anymore if you succeed. I’m about a million times more concerned about the latter.
  - _heimdall 1y ago
    Do you not believe Trump was elected legitimately? I totally understand and share many of the concerns over the insurrection and what happened around it, but Trump didn't take office in 2020 and wasn't reelected until 2024.
    - wat10000 1y ago
      He was. Where do you see me saying otherwise?
      - _heimdall 1y ago
        > Biden was elected legitimately. I must have misread you last comment. I read this as a comparison implying that Biden wasn't legitimately elected but you just meant it to set up the point.

wefinh 1y ago

Yeah, only the issue here is that @realFascists are in opposition to Trump. And reading this text in that light - it check out and not really a news. Also, frankly, you folks need to stop monopolizing these topics, based on highly polarized ideological filter, because even before Trump there was dissatisfaction about how Musk monopolized NASA contracts on the promise, that he would deliver more efficient and cheaper solution, while in reality the result is that NASA is currently paying more for Musks private solutions, than when it had to do it by itself. There are sure many other options to what Musk offers and if Trump is there to break up that monopoly and open up the market, then it is a win situation.

avmich 1y ago
Can you clarify what reality you're talking about? How NASA would do it cheaper?
shigawire 1y ago
Doublethink
Cipater 1y ago
>there was dissatisfaction about how Musk monopolized NASA contracts on the promise, that he would deliver more efficient and cheaper solution, while in reality the result is that NASA is currently paying more for Musks private solutions, than when it had to do it by itself SLS, NASA's rocket, costs $2.5 billion, PER LAUNCH.
wqaatwt 1y ago
That’s all very nice but according to Trump this only suddenly became a problem only a few weeks ago due to some reason. So whatever you are saying has absolutely no relevance to this decision making. If Musk continued licking his boots he’d be doing fine..

ETH_start 1y ago

[flagged]

pessimist 1y ago
The Democratic Governor of California denounced them publicly and stopped the effort. Despite Musk raising millions and campaigning viciously against the Democrats the administration kept all of SpaceX contracts and Tesla ev subsidies. In fact the IRA benefited Tesla disproportionately. Both sides are NOT the same. One is fascist and the other is not
- ETH_start 1y ago
  The Democratic White House chose to not invite Tesla to their EV Summit. That was not political? The Democratic DoJ and Democrat DAGs prosecuted dozens of former Trump administration officials and Trump allies, and even Trump himself: Trump Administration Officials: Michael Flynn – Former National Security Advisor Stephen K. Bannon – Former White House Chief Strategist & Campaign Advisor Mark Meadows – Former White House Chief of Staff Jeffrey Clark – Former Acting Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Division, U.S. Department of Justice Peter Navarro – Former White House Trade Advisor Trump Allies: Paul Manafort – Former Trump Campaign Chairman George Papadopoulos – Former Trump Campaign Foreign Policy Advisor Rick Gates – Former Trump Deputy Campaign Chairman Roger Stone – Longtime Trump Advisor and Friend Michael Cohen – Former Personal Attorney to Donald Trump Elliott Broidy – Former Trump Fundraiser Rudolph Giuliani – Attorney to Trump, Former Mayor of New York City Waltine Nauta – Personal Aide to Trump Carlos De Oliveira – Property Manager at Mar-a-Lago Sidney Powell – Trump Campaign Attorney Kenneth Chesebro – Trump Attorney Jenna Ellis – Trump Campaign Attorney John Eastman – Trump Attorney Dinesh D'Souza – Conservative Commentator, Trump Supporter Joseph M. Arpaio – Former Sheriff of Maricopa County, Arizona, Trump Supporter Ray Smith III – Trump Attorney Cathy Latham – Fake Elector, Coffee County GOP Leader Robert Cheeley – Trump Attorney David Shafer – Fake Elector, Former Georgia GOP Chair Mike Roman – Trump Campaign Staffer Shawn Still – Fake Elector, Then-Georgia State Senator Scott Hall – Atlanta Bail Bondsman Misty Hampton – Former Coffee County Elections Supervisor Steve Lee – Pastor from Illinois Harrison Floyd – Black Voices for Trump Leader Trevian Kutti – Publicist from Chicago I'm sure this was just Democrats following the law, with no bias, right? This kind of narrative that you're forwarding now where the Republican Party are fascists and Trump is a threat to democracy is exactly the kind of mentality that was used to elicit this enormous persecution of Trump and officials near him. Meanwhile, the real elephant in the room is always ignored: The Democrats shovel hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money to large unions in order to secure their support and win elections. This is textbook corruption. https://politifact.com/factchecks/2022/dec/14/kevin-brady/bidens-36-billion-to-save-teamsters-fund-from-inso/ https://politifact.com/factchecks/2022/dec/14/kevin-brady/bi... The recipients of USAID grants? All Democrats. Same story all across DC. That's why 92.4% of DC voted for Harris. DC, meanwhile, has a per capita GDP of $250,000.

tempodox 1y ago

I think double standards would be a better term than hypocricy. Hypocricy would imply the pretense to be bound by certain rules, but the whole point of fascism is that those in power are not bound by any rules. They only make rules to bind others. I don't see any hypocricy in the openly advertised corruption of the current administration, it's just plain evil of the “we do it because we can” sort.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

andyjohnson0 1y ago

> I think the end goal is domination. From https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/109551955251655267 I don't know whether Trump can accurately be described as a fascist, but its been clear to me since his first term that domination is the only thing that matters to him. The obscene wealth and the swaggering deceitfulness and the gold-plated bathrooms are just the secondary outcomes of his need to dominate. Domineering father-figure; raised as a sociopath; given a lot of money. Kind of inevitable.