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A surprising amount of Americans refuse to drink tap water entirely, in their own suburban homes with quality municipal water, or anywhere else they travel, hol

A surprising amount of Americans refuse to drink tap water entirely, in their own suburban homes with quality municipal water, or anywhere else they travel, holding the opinion that plastic bottled water is safer and better. Of course bottled water is regulated far less than tap water, and contains an ungodly amount of microplastics from manufacturing and storage. Under-sink RO systems seem pretty great to me, anywhere you live. With a small holding tank, municipal water pressure is enough to drive small RO cartridges, requiring no electrical power to run, and giving more than sufficient flow rate for all drinking water. I think the biggest downside is a few hundred dollars in initial setup, and cartridges every year or two. This seems safer than relying on the changing opinions of experts as to what amount of harmful chemicals are safe to drink.

BugsJustFindMe 1y ago
> A surprising amount of Americans refuse to drink tap water entirely, in their own suburban homes with quality municipal water It shouldn't be surprising that Americans might understand that their water might not actually be safe despite the municipal government saying it is. It took two whole years for administrators in Flint, Michigan to acknowledge their lead pipe crisis. Trust needs to be earned and maintained, and America is notoriously bad at maintaining critical public infrastructure.
- n4r9 1y ago
  > America is notoriously bad at maintaining critical public infrastructure. How does that compare with food safety in commercial products? That's the question.
  - its-summertime 1y ago
    I mean, most bottled waters are transparent, so that compares well against what Flint had
porphyra 1y ago
Even if safe, municipal water where I live (San Jose, California) contains a ton of chlorine and is super hard, making it unpleasant to drink. In contrast, bottled water consistently tastes fine.
- adastra22 1y ago
  San Jose water is absolute trash. There may not be (much) lead, but there are a host of other minerals and contaminants. It’s also a roll of the dice whether you’ll find Legionnaires' disease in your pipes. I have a whole-house soft-water filter for general use, and for drinking/cooking get 5-gallon bottles filled with RO purified water from The Water Spring on Homestead in Santa Clara. The municipal source for RO water matters, and Santa Clara has the best utilities in the valley. http://waterspring.com/ http://waterspring.com/ Stay safe out there.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - LargoLasskhyfv 1y ago
    https://www.eldoradosprings.com/out-of-state-shipping-of-eldorado-water https://www.eldoradosprings.com/out-of-state-shipping-of-eld... Cheers
    - adastra22 1y ago
      Hard to beat $0.25/gal at Water Spring.
      - LargoLasskhyfv 1y ago
        Dunno. Have been unaware of them so far. Am not that often in SJ anyway, but when I am the tap is taboo for me. That stuff can only be spat out. I know the Eldorado Springs from when I'm in Aspen, Austin, Altadena, and while I don't get the hype surrounding the stuff, it's more than acceptable (for water). Taste matters. Be it for coffee, tea, cooking, making desserts, even baking, or making your own pizza dough.
darth_avocado 1y ago
One side effect of RO is vitamin B12 deficiency. And there is some debate around whether that is true or not, but anecdotally, I had developed a severe B12 deficiency to the point that one day out of the blue, I couldn’t move one of my legs. I freaked out and went to the ER, and it turns out, 1 B12 shot later, I went back to normal within minutes. The doctor hypothesized that I had developed a severe B12 deficiency because of RO water and that I supplement my food with B12 supplements. The regular intake of meat/eggs wasn’t sufficient to compensate for the lack of B12 absorption.
- cinntaile 1y ago
  What's the mechanism here? Because it's not like there is B12 supplements in the water.
  - micromacrofoot 1y ago
    reverse osmosis removes minerals like cobalt, which are used for b12 production if you only drink ro water it can creep up on you, but takes some time
    - mometsi 1y ago
      It's not used for b12 production in human metabolism. It is, after all, a vitamin. Is this about cobalt deficiency in dairy and meat animals?
    - s0rce 1y ago
      How much Co is in your water compared to your food. EPA says just 2 ppb in tap water. This means if you drink about 40 fl.oz. per day you only get 2ug of Co from your water. Per the EPA you get about 2-20x more from your food. Pretty much in no cases is your water a source of nutrients. refs: https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-09/documents/cobalt-compounds.pdf https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-09/documents/co... https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/php/data-research/fast-facts-water-consumption.html https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/php/data-research/fast-facts-w...
hollerith 1y ago
In your second paragraph you seem to be describing carbon-block filtration. Particularly, the maintenance of an RO system consists of a lot more than just replacing cartridges every year or two.
- margalabargala 1y ago
  Could you elaborate? I have an undersink RO filter. Maintenance consists of changing filters every year or two.
  - tguvot 1y ago
    you need sterilize entire system periodically. and completely empty/refill tank once in a while
    - margalabargala 1y ago
      I totally believe that the system you have requires this, but plenty of others do not. Here's the maintenance manual for the one I have. The sterilization and emptying/refilling are done as part of the filter replacement, and not otherwise: https://www.whirlpoolwatersolutions.com/wp-content/manuals/WHAROS5/WHAROS5-English-2.pdf https://www.whirlpoolwatersolutions.com/wp-content/manuals/W...
      - tguvot 1y ago
        " Maintenance consists of changing filters every year or two." it's not same as "disconnecting lines and pouring bleach inside when i change filter" or using "Manufacturer recommends using the Model 7301203 Sanitizing Kit"
  - an_aparallel 1y ago
    You need to change filters as recommended, change o-rings, and bleach the fittings. Algae will develop on those. Thats pretty much it. I wouldnt run bleach through the filters. The filter medium saturates, and any further use will just recontaminate water
zahlman 1y ago
> ... bottled water ... contains an ungodly amount of microplastics from manufacturing and storage. Is it worse than the other groceries we can't readily get without them being wrapped in plastic? Or storing leftovers in plastic bags at home?
- s0rce 1y ago
  My guess is yes, because they can more easily get into the liquid. Unless you are talking about other liquids like juices or canned foods, those I would expect are similar or vary depending on the type of plastic.
jandrewrogers 1y ago
The water in some parts of the US has natural chemistry that makes it unpleasant to drink even though it is safe. California urban areas are notorious for this, as an example. In principle you could remediate the water to make it taste good and remove any discoloration (also a thing in a few regions) with enough industrial processing but that would greatly increase the cost of already expensive tap water. People who grew up in one of these areas are habituated into never drinking the tap water even if they move to a city with excellent tasting and very high quality tap water. I’ve lived in extreme examples of both. You also see the opposite case, where someone who grew up with amazing tap water naively grabs a glass from the tap in north San Diego and has a “wtf is this” moment.
- PlattypusRex 1y ago
  San Diego's tap water tastes truly awful. The first time I ever traveled to another city (Denver), I was forced to drink the tap water and could not believe how good it tasted.
  - jandrewrogers 1y ago
    San Diego has the worst tap water for drinking I have ever experienced in the US. When I lived there, pretty much everyone had a reverse osmosis system installed to make it drinkable. Fortunately, I live in the Pacific Northwest currently, which generally has some of the best tasting water you’ll find anywhere. No one would dream of not drinking the tap water.
mousethatroared 1y ago
A surprising amount of Americans live in cities that cheaped out on the water infrastructure and found out their water had lead. Like me. Luckily, I am very unreasonably distrusting of government and never drank the stuff.
more_corn 1y ago
Didn’t the Trump EPA roll back water quality rules for forever chemicals? Chemicals that accumulate over time and are known to cause organ failure? If the federal rules allow unsafe levels of PFAs it’s reasonable to expect that municipal water companies adhere to said unsafe limits. So no we probably should not trust our municipal water supplies. Maybe in countries that have functional governments that’s a safe bet.

BugsJustFindMe 1y ago

> A surprising amount of Americans refuse to drink tap water entirely, in their own suburban homes with quality municipal water It shouldn't be surprising that Americans might understand that their water might not actually be safe despite the municipal government saying it is. It took two whole years for administrators in Flint, Michigan to acknowledge their lead pipe crisis. Trust needs to be earned and maintained, and America is notoriously bad at maintaining critical public infrastructure.

n4r9 1y ago
> America is notoriously bad at maintaining critical public infrastructure. How does that compare with food safety in commercial products? That's the question.
- its-summertime 1y ago
  I mean, most bottled waters are transparent, so that compares well against what Flint had

porphyra 1y ago

Even if safe, municipal water where I live (San Jose, California) contains a ton of chlorine and is super hard, making it unpleasant to drink. In contrast, bottled water consistently tastes fine.

adastra22 1y ago
San Jose water is absolute trash. There may not be (much) lead, but there are a host of other minerals and contaminants. It’s also a roll of the dice whether you’ll find Legionnaires' disease in your pipes. I have a whole-house soft-water filter for general use, and for drinking/cooking get 5-gallon bottles filled with RO purified water from The Water Spring on Homestead in Santa Clara. The municipal source for RO water matters, and Santa Clara has the best utilities in the valley. http://waterspring.com/ http://waterspring.com/ Stay safe out there.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- LargoLasskhyfv 1y ago
  https://www.eldoradosprings.com/out-of-state-shipping-of-eldorado-water https://www.eldoradosprings.com/out-of-state-shipping-of-eld... Cheers
  - adastra22 1y ago
    Hard to beat $0.25/gal at Water Spring.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 1y ago
      Dunno. Have been unaware of them so far. Am not that often in SJ anyway, but when I am the tap is taboo for me. That stuff can only be spat out. I know the Eldorado Springs from when I'm in Aspen, Austin, Altadena, and while I don't get the hype surrounding the stuff, it's more than acceptable (for water). Taste matters. Be it for coffee, tea, cooking, making desserts, even baking, or making your own pizza dough.

darth_avocado 1y ago

One side effect of RO is vitamin B12 deficiency. And there is some debate around whether that is true or not, but anecdotally, I had developed a severe B12 deficiency to the point that one day out of the blue, I couldn’t move one of my legs. I freaked out and went to the ER, and it turns out, 1 B12 shot later, I went back to normal within minutes. The doctor hypothesized that I had developed a severe B12 deficiency because of RO water and that I supplement my food with B12 supplements. The regular intake of meat/eggs wasn’t sufficient to compensate for the lack of B12 absorption.

cinntaile 1y ago
What's the mechanism here? Because it's not like there is B12 supplements in the water.
- micromacrofoot 1y ago
  reverse osmosis removes minerals like cobalt, which are used for b12 production if you only drink ro water it can creep up on you, but takes some time
  - mometsi 1y ago
    It's not used for b12 production in human metabolism. It is, after all, a vitamin. Is this about cobalt deficiency in dairy and meat animals?
  - s0rce 1y ago
    How much Co is in your water compared to your food. EPA says just 2 ppb in tap water. This means if you drink about 40 fl.oz. per day you only get 2ug of Co from your water. Per the EPA you get about 2-20x more from your food. Pretty much in no cases is your water a source of nutrients. refs: https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-09/documents/cobalt-compounds.pdf https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-09/documents/co... https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/php/data-research/fast-facts-water-consumption.html https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/php/data-research/fast-facts-w...

hollerith 1y ago

In your second paragraph you seem to be describing carbon-block filtration. Particularly, the maintenance of an RO system consists of a lot more than just replacing cartridges every year or two.

margalabargala 1y ago
Could you elaborate? I have an undersink RO filter. Maintenance consists of changing filters every year or two.
- tguvot 1y ago
  you need sterilize entire system periodically. and completely empty/refill tank once in a while
  - margalabargala 1y ago
    I totally believe that the system you have requires this, but plenty of others do not. Here's the maintenance manual for the one I have. The sterilization and emptying/refilling are done as part of the filter replacement, and not otherwise: https://www.whirlpoolwatersolutions.com/wp-content/manuals/WHAROS5/WHAROS5-English-2.pdf https://www.whirlpoolwatersolutions.com/wp-content/manuals/W...
    - tguvot 1y ago
      " Maintenance consists of changing filters every year or two." it's not same as "disconnecting lines and pouring bleach inside when i change filter" or using "Manufacturer recommends using the Model 7301203 Sanitizing Kit"
- an_aparallel 1y ago
  You need to change filters as recommended, change o-rings, and bleach the fittings. Algae will develop on those. Thats pretty much it. I wouldnt run bleach through the filters. The filter medium saturates, and any further use will just recontaminate water

zahlman 1y ago

> ... bottled water ... contains an ungodly amount of microplastics from manufacturing and storage. Is it worse than the other groceries we can't readily get without them being wrapped in plastic? Or storing leftovers in plastic bags at home?

s0rce 1y ago
My guess is yes, because they can more easily get into the liquid. Unless you are talking about other liquids like juices or canned foods, those I would expect are similar or vary depending on the type of plastic.

jandrewrogers 1y ago

The water in some parts of the US has natural chemistry that makes it unpleasant to drink even though it is safe. California urban areas are notorious for this, as an example. In principle you could remediate the water to make it taste good and remove any discoloration (also a thing in a few regions) with enough industrial processing but that would greatly increase the cost of already expensive tap water. People who grew up in one of these areas are habituated into never drinking the tap water even if they move to a city with excellent tasting and very high quality tap water. I’ve lived in extreme examples of both. You also see the opposite case, where someone who grew up with amazing tap water naively grabs a glass from the tap in north San Diego and has a “wtf is this” moment.

PlattypusRex 1y ago
San Diego's tap water tastes truly awful. The first time I ever traveled to another city (Denver), I was forced to drink the tap water and could not believe how good it tasted.
- jandrewrogers 1y ago
  San Diego has the worst tap water for drinking I have ever experienced in the US. When I lived there, pretty much everyone had a reverse osmosis system installed to make it drinkable. Fortunately, I live in the Pacific Northwest currently, which generally has some of the best tasting water you’ll find anywhere. No one would dream of not drinking the tap water.

mousethatroared 1y ago

A surprising amount of Americans live in cities that cheaped out on the water infrastructure and found out their water had lead. Like me. Luckily, I am very unreasonably distrusting of government and never drank the stuff.

more_corn 1y ago

Didn’t the Trump EPA roll back water quality rules for forever chemicals? Chemicals that accumulate over time and are known to cause organ failure? If the federal rules allow unsafe levels of PFAs it’s reasonable to expect that municipal water companies adhere to said unsafe limits. So no we probably should not trust our municipal water supplies. Maybe in countries that have functional governments that’s a safe bet.