8 ms·
The startling rise of disability in America (2013)
- renewiltord 1y agoVA disability is one of these big scams. People have gotten pretty good at transforming brands into money these days. So socially respected groups like firefighters or military use the chance to extract massive wealth from productive society.
- vkou 1y agoHave you made any VA claims, or have you worked for the VA? I know people who have done both, and profligacy is not something either would accuse the organization of.
- lokar 1y agoAIUI, pretty much everyone can get a partial disability rating for tinnitus
- jwiz 1y agoSounds...legit tho? I sure wouldn't want tinnitus, so if that can be softened, seems worth doing.
- olalonde 1y agoI think the implication is that people who don't have tinnitus can also claim it - there's no objective test to verify whether it's true.
- lokar 1y agoAlso, what is the point of a partial disability payment? Is it to compensate you for the lost income you couldn’t have earned if not for the disability? That would be in line with the goal of normal disability.
- the__alchemist 1y agoI know a lot of 100%-disabled vets who had desk jobs while in, who are healthy, rock-climb etc. It's absolutely an abused system. Basically, you claim various categories, and get 10% disability for each category you claim. edit: They usually have full-time jobs too.
- vjvjvjvjghv 1y agoWhen I lived in DC I knew several vets who received disability payments, worked well paid full time jobs at defense contractors and otherwise lived normal active lives. It definitely looked a little questionable
- nullstyle 1y agoI recommend you search youtube for “va disability 100 percent” and witness the staggering number of channels clearly teaching people to game the system, complete with shush face thumbnails. There seems to be some profligacy from that angle.
- lazyasciiart 1y agoNext you’re going to tell me that all those “get rich by buying my book” YouTube channels mean people must be getting rich by buying their books.
- nullstyle 1y agoSo are you saying all of the people who watch these channels (in your analogy they "buy get rich quick books") never try to get a disability status? or they try and never make it? Or do they go for an interview, get their tinnitus, ibs, or chronic back pain diagnosis then try again for more next time? ---- Look, I'm not saying we shouldn't help/trust veterans; My father is a severely disabled Vietnam war vet and gave up his body for the air force over a long career. He deserved to have his stairlift paid for by the taxpayer, but he shouldn't have to fight with corrupt service providers who can't do a proper job installing the thing. He shouldn't have to deal with a contractor that won't repair the botched installation for a year because it would cut into their profit margin. Similarly, he shouldn't have his services degraded because other vets have found out how to take more than their fair share. I'm open to think there is minimal graft, but my experiences say there is some more going on than I can be supportive of. Maybe you could provide some data to show how I'm mistaken.
- wormius 1y agoYou're the one making the claim and assumption and "gut feeling" so it sounds like YOU are the one needing actual data for your "gut feelings". Sorry this is the same bullshit people do when they see a person able to stand for a few hours and say "WHY ARE THEY ON DISABILITY" and ignoring the rest of the time they aren't seeing, or the people recovering. This is just hearsay, and since you're the one making these claims, then it behooves YOU to provide the proof. But it's a nice little racket, make a claim and then demand those who deny it provide the proof. That's now how science or respectable arguments work. This whole thread is full of such bullshit. And it's so people can feel superior to those who they think are scamming the system (in an ever increasing need to "crack down" on those who "abuse" the system (slowly killing it over time, or until you can get a DOGE in and ransack it like a viking ship plundering coastal communities). Anyways, citation needed, since you're the one making the claims.
- missedthecue 1y agoThere are entire online communities around gaming the system. On how to report pre-service injuries as service related. On how to deliberately build a huge medical file while you're in to support your disability claim later. On where to go and when, in order to get your highest possible rating. Things to say and not to say. There is an entire industry of paid consultants that help you get the biggest claim possible. It's a big issue. Over 30% of vets today have disability compared to 15% in 2008. 3% of federal revenue goes to paying veteran disability alone and it's climbing. No politician can talk about it because campaigning on taking money from disabled veterans is the best way to nuke yourself in the polls.
- jhp123 1y agowe should have talked about it back in 2001 before we sent these young men to risk their lives and health in a misbegotten crusade. The rise in costs for veterans care was predictable: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2007/02/terror-war-could-strain-veterans-health-benefit-systems/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2007/02/terror-war-co...
- missedthecue 1y agoThere's plenty of things to say about the waste and pointlessness of the GWOT. But there were never enough deployments to justify these levels of disability claims. And not every person deployed goes into combat. And not every person that goes into combat becomes disabled. A rise was predictable. 30% simply implies a lot of a dishonesty.
- 9x39 1y agoI agree with you about the VA, although everything I know is secondhand. I make two generalizations from veterans I know: one type accumulates injuries throughout service (neck, knees, hips, shoulders, back, toxic exposure) but being the walk-it-off types, never documented much because they were often deployed and didn't bother with paperwork. Bitterly complains about the VA and their limited or temporary disability ratings despite grinding pain and difficulty in later life. Second type is similar to the first type, but played the 'game' optimally, documented, documented, and documented. While you can absolutely get some of the same injuries, I was surprised to find things like mild sleep apnea and male pattern baldness helped get someone a permanent 100% disability rating. No doubt life isn't easy, but to think this individual is 100% disabled is a bit of a stretch when they also work full-time for .gov doing project work. My point is that like a video game, people are very good at finding the optimal or 'meta' path to maximizing outcomes in a set of rules, and outcomes from a system can be different than what casual observers might think is the intended purpose of the system.
- trogdor 1y ago> male pattern baldness helped get someone a permanent 100% disability rating I find that very hard to believe. Do you have evidence that this is true?
- roarcher 1y agoAs a veteran I haven't heard of that particular one, but I've heard of disability ratings given out for trivial enough things that I think it's plausible. I knew of one guy who got it for PTSD after being stationed in Okinawa doing an office job for 4 years. And I know another who has a rating for migraines, which he freely admits to not having and lying to the VA about. I never applied for disability of any kind, but it would seem that the VA examiners question nothing and hand out ratings like candy. According to the migraine guy, it's one of those situations where they have to find things to spend their budget on or they lose it next year. I'm of the opinion that if they can afford to spend their budget supporting freeloaders and liars then perhaps it would be better used by some other office, but I digress.
- 1y ago
- lokar 1y agoIt’s not obvious, but I’m pretty sure this is from 2013 (I remember hearing it when it aired).
- Uvix 1y agoConfirmed - if you follow the "Listen to this story" link, it's from 22 March 2013.
- pyrophane 1y agoGlad you posted this as I remember hearing about this situation some years ago but couldn't remember where.
- dang 1y agoGood catch! https://web.archive.org/web/20130326035330/https://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130326035330/https://apps.npr.... We've added the year to the title above.
- WalterBright 1y agoIt's not startling at all. When people are paid to be disabled, what else would one expect?
- skulk 1y agoI agree. Allow me to present a modest proposal...
- Whoppertime 1y agoIt's like California paying more for homelessness each year and getting more homelessness each year
- paleotrope 1y agoBread and circuses
- datavirtue 1y agoChronic back issues...omg. You can literally exersize your way out of them. It's the only treatment and it is VERY effective. Living proof. People run into back issues (very common and will probably happen to everyone) and doctors send them home with print outs showing them them how to repair their back. They throw the paper away and go back when "they need surgery." That makes it worse.
- WalterBright 1y agoI have chronic back pain, recently diagnosed as osteoarthritis. I can attest that doing all the exercises the doctor's printout shows keeps the pain at bay.
- analog31 1y agoThis is as good a place to mention it as anywhere: My physical therapist told me that people who work at a computer all day have a high risk of osteoarthritis.
- datavirtue 1y agoGet the Back Mechanic book. Author is a genius.
- cachecrab 1y agoSome people need pain reprocessing therapy. Have you read the book The Way Out by Alan Gordon? https://www.painreprocessingtherapy.com/ https://www.painreprocessingtherapy.com/ https://www.amazon.com/Way-Out-Revolutionary-Scientifically-Approach/dp/059308683X https://www.amazon.com/Way-Out-Revolutionary-Scientifically-...
- Taeper 1y agoThis works for a lot of back issues but not all of em! For example syringomyelia, depending on where it forms, can be exacerbated by working out. So ideally make sure you have a good idea of why your back hurts before you start, but it can be hard to diagnose. https://asap.org/disorders/articles/exercise-concepts/ https://asap.org/disorders/articles/exercise-concepts/
- olalonde 1y ago> Fewer than 1 percent of those who were on the federal program for disabled workers at the beginning of 2011 have returned to the workforce since then, one economist told me. Do they lose their "disabled" status if they go back to work? If so, that seems like a textbook poverty trap. Why risk losing lifetime free money for a minimum wage job that might not last?
- lazyasciiart 1y agoYes
- genewitch 1y agoI have a friend 'trapped' by government aid. They receive some benefits from being diagnosed with something as a minor and their father received a government aid that conferred to them. Its SSDI IIRC; the rules say they can't get married, can't own property, can't earn more than $X/unit of time. The 27 years I've known them have been punctuated by my saying "what if you do this to solve your current issue" and the reply is "I'll lose my benefits" I'm unfit to say if they need it; as in I am unsure if their life would be worse or better without. Don't read too much into the setup, above; my memory is fuzzy unless I am directly talking to them about it, and even so they correct me like, "its not ssi it's ssdi," or whatever it is. This is to +1 with an anecdote.
- roarcher 1y agoI dated a disabled woman for a bit, and this is exactly how it was. Every possible solution to her situation had better be 100% guaranteed to work, because it was guaranteed to get her ejected from SSDI, never able to reapply unless she developed a new and unrelated disability. She wasn't even allowed to save money for an emergency fund or a large purchase because there was a limit to how much liquid cash she could have at any time, and it was something like $2000. If she demonstrated an ability to save more than that, the bureaucrats would take that as irrefutable evidence that she was well enough off to not need help, and boot her from the program. Every single thing about the way that program is administered actively prevents its users from bettering their situation.
- 90s_dev 1y ago[flagged]
- mensetmanusman 1y agoSugar and inactivity are a hell of a drug.
- nurettin 1y agoSo is inbreeding.
- AndrewKemendo 1y agoI am a 100% P&T disabled veteran - I have handicapped parking and all of that. I could sit here and list out all the medical and legally accepted reasons that the Veterans Administration, and as a result all other regulatory bodies, give me this status (epilepsy, constantly dislocating shoulders, hip arthritis, tinnitus, PTSD etc...) However I have friends, colleagues and neighbors who are measurably less physically and mentally capable but are not considered disabled. When I look at the job market, MOST people are not capable of doing their individual life without significant training, help, direction or supervision. People call this bad-state "adulting" and find it onerous. Said another way, the vast majority of people do not have the cognitive ability, education (self taught or formal), or experience to set goals, take actions and self improve without significant direction from someone else. I personally consider that disabled. So if these people are considering themselves disabled, then they are probably right - they are incapable of being independent or living within a community that takes care of them. So the only remaining community left is the abstracted transactional monetary system implemented by governments to allocate resources toward them provided they check the right boxes. Ideally 100% of humanity would be on disability - because we can build systems measurably more capable than human labor - someone just needs to rebrand it as "UBI."
- DiggyJohnson 1y agoInteresting perspective. A lot of the nuance and disagreement comes from what we mean when we say “incapable”.
- dingnuts 1y agoNo, the view that "everyone should be on disability" is just socialism..
- constantcrying 1y agoI would absolutely hate to have to think myself "disabled" and I would hate the idea of the state seeing itself as my "caretaker". What you are describing is also the opposite from what liberal democracy was envisioned as. It was supposed to be a state, which created complete and mature citizens, which make well formed decision and can be trusted with governing the country. To be honest I do not think that you are wrong in your description, the state is certainly transforming into an institution where the citizen are envisioned as disabled wrecks, which are in desperate need of government support. I just hate that this is the case, it is fundamentally incompatible with the ideals of a liberal democracy.
- cebert 1y agoIt’s unfortunate that we can’t seriously consider universal basic income in the United States. If we provided every adult citizen with $13K annually during their working years, it could offer support to those unable to find meaningful employment without forcing them to declare themselves disabled just to survive. That label can take a real toll on a person’s psyche and limit their belief in their ability to grow or find better opportunities. We also have to be realistic and realize AI is positioned to replace a significant number of jobs in the next decade. A safety net like UBI will only become more essential moving forward.
- vjvjvjvjghv 1y agoThat would require a total rethinking of our economic system. I doubt this will happen without any catalyst like war or revolution.
- olalonde 1y agoNot necessarily. The US government already spends >2000$ per adult per month. It would require a total rethinking of the role of government.
- paxys 1y agoSpends on what? It's not like you can disband the military, not build roads and bridges and eliminate medicaid just because you send out a $1000/mo UBI payment. If you want to consider just social assistance then the US government spends about $950B annually, and that works out to $2800 per year per citizen. To make it a livable amount you'd have to at minimum 5x that expenditure (and a lot more than that in urban areas).
- olalonde 1y agoThe comment I was replying to proposed a UBI of $13,000/year or roughly what many people on disability currently live on. That would cost around $3.4 trillion annually, leaving over $3 trillion for everything else, including roads and the military. Of course, you'd still need to make cuts somewhere - likely from existing entitlement programs.
- vjvjvjvjghv 1y agoI thought disability is often the only way for people to get support when there is no other option for welfare.
- therealdrag0 1y agoI remember some article mentioned that the rise in disability correlated with the fall of welfare availability. (I didn’t read article so donno if covered)
- desireco42 1y agoA lot of people are people on Obesity... Which is what Kennedy is trying to fix and address. It is better to enable people to help themselves. Big corporations have interest to have us weak and confused, from being perpetually single to other ways to make us dependendent on "services"
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y agoYou think that an administration with good intentions of helping people would start off by kicking people off of the existing aid systems and tearing down institutions? Even institutions like the National weather service?
- Hilift 1y agoThis grossly understates the current 2025 financial impact of the problem, and is directly linked to the ~$36 trillion debt. There is a target to reduce Medicaid recipients by 4.8 million by 2033, by requiring them to attend school or volunteer 80 hours per month. That's a lot. https://www.nola.com/news/politics/impact-on-louisiana-of-medicaid-changes-to-house-passed-bill/article_7e5d5057-e618-4c15-acb6-325602539336.html https://www.nola.com/news/politics/impact-on-louisiana-of-me... In the next four years, nearly every state that has huge Medicaid obligations will be forced to restrict and reduce access simply due to budget constraints. For example, California has 6.6 million enrolled in Medicaid and requires a staggering $85 billion federal assistance annual infusion for Medicaid. "People with disabilities composed 8% of Medi-Cal enrollees and accounted for 31% of spending". California has 49% of the population on employer-provided health insurance. Only 5% purchase private insurance (Affordable Care Act). However, 22% of Californians are covered by Medicaid. That number is unsustainable, and Governor Newsom is already enacting measures to reduce enrollment and eligibility. https://calmatters.org/health/2025/05/medicaid-work-requirement-california-congress/ https://calmatters.org/health/2025/05/medicaid-work-requirem... https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/MediCalFactsFiguresAlmanac08052024.pdf https://www.chcf.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/MediCalFacts... https://calmatters.org/health/2025/05/medi-cal-assets-newsom-health-insurance/ https://calmatters.org/health/2025/05/medi-cal-assets-newsom...
- gusgus01 1y agoCalifornia is not a great example, since they pay out to the Fed so much more than they receive, so that infusion isn't really an infusion when you consider the overall budgets.
- hollerith 1y agoNit: "the Fed" means the Federal Reserve Bank, which does not collect taxes. "The US treasury", "the Federal government" or "Fedgov" would work in your sentence.
- gusgus01 1y agoIt was supposed to be "the feds", short for "the federal government", but missing the s led to autocorrect on my phone correcting it to "the Fed". I can't edit it now, luckily I think the message is still pretty clear.
- amanaplanacanal 1y ago(2013)
- mike-the-mikado 1y agoI find it really surprising that a current affairs report of this sort is not clearly dated. I wonder if NPR do better with more recent articles?
- dhosek 1y agoLast Week Tonight did a great piece on the negatives of how SSDI disability works in practice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq2s7RMRsgs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq2s7RMRsgs
- dehrmann 1y agoIt's probably obesity, lack of opportunity, and cultural normalization.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y agoCan those be fixed?
- cavisne 1y agoNothing compared to the NDIS rort in Australia. There is literal gang warfare over providing "services" to people with high payouts.
- pinoy420 1y ago[dead]
- Animats 1y ago"Somewhere around 30 years ago, the economy started changing in some fundamental ways. There are now millions of Americans who do not have the skills or education to make it in this country." Not wrong, and sad. This article shows what Universal Basic Income looks like on the ground.
- sgnelson 1y agoOne thing I've noticed over the past 20 years. At least in the United States, we need less "ditch diggers." This means that those who are less intellectually capable find it harder to get employment in a suitable position. I think this is an issue that needs to be addressed. But you know, I live here and now, so that ain't happening.
- Yeul 1y agoCompanies would rather hire an illegal immigrant than deal with someone who is not 100% mentally or physically fit.
- specialist 1y ago> * At least in the United States, we need less "ditch diggers."* There is no end to the amount of work that needs doing. Most of it "unskilled" labor. Childcare, eldercare, planting trees, habitat restoration, ESL tutors, etc.
- mindslight 1y agoSure, there is work that "needs doing". This doesn't mean there is anyone willing to pay to get that work done, especially at a livable wage that someone can base their life on (including some surplus such that they have slack to recover from making mistakes due to being less intellectual). Even for something with an economically-demanded niche like planting trees, several guys with a shovel are beaten by two guys with a skid steer - putting us right back to the capital wins dynamic where the person who can afford to invest in the skid steer now bids down the now-surplus manual laborers who can't. Eldercare could definitely use 2-3x the labor, but the whole goal of nursing homes is to turn the screws the other way. Then once you have staffing running extremely thin and unsupervised, the gatekeeping credentials become highly important.
- drewcoo 1y ago> we need less "ditch diggers." Fewer.
- 1y ago
- wyldfire 1y agoEric Conn [1] is a fraudster who abused this with a scheme to bribe judges, doctors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_C._Conn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_C._Conn
- pragmatic 1y agoThis needs a 2013 flag.
- nlh 1y agoI'll never forget the run-in I had with this corner of the labor market: Back about 15 years ago I was running a small business in the auto industry. A guy who did deliveries for us (entire job: driving cars to people) who was in his early 20s found himself in a very minor fender-bender -- he rear-ended someone else. He claimed his twisted his ankle from the jolt (based on where he was resting his foot). Fine, no big deal. He went to see a doctor shortly afterwards and immediately filed for a Worker's Comp claim. He then kept seeing that doctor and within a few weeks was given...permanent disability. Literally got a doctor to say he'd never be able to work again. Full sign-off. He of course was seen walking around just fine a few months later. Absolute insanity.
- rowls66 1y agoThis article is nearly 15 years old (2013). According to center on budget and policy priorities, the number of SSDI beneficiaries has fallen from is peak in 2014. So this article was written about a trend that peaked a year after its publication and had reversed over the past 15 years. Odd that it would be reposted today. https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/social-security-disability-insurance-0#:~:text=SSDI%20enrollment%20is%20falling.,years%20and%20then%20remain%20stable. https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/social-securit...
- trod1234 1y agoI think someone may have wanted to bring more attention to this because contrary to surface level opinion and the peak on the surface; there is actually a growing number of people who meet the requirements to be eligible for disability but who do not receive those benefits. There's a longstanding fear, and one that seems well founded, where those that meet the requirements won't actually file for it because doing so will have an adverse effect on any potential future employment. Disability discrimination during hiring is almost impossible to prove with AI these days. I've heard horror stories from some people at the shelter where I volunteer. One guy apparently had a county representative check the wrong boxes on benefit documents by mistake during welfare processing, saying a person was disabled because of a health condition (sleep apnea iirc) when they weren't disabled or receiving disability, and those people couldn't even find retail work afterwards. AI has opened the floodgates to all sorts of discrimination as a result of the weights and decision-making being a black box with no accountability.
- lithocarpus 1y ago[dead]
- AngryData 1y agoThe problem with disability in the US is it is very easy to get kicked off of it, so nobody risks earning or saving too much money (I think you must maintain under $2000 at all times?) or pursuing a potentially viable career unless it is a 100% guarantee, because you can't go back on disability later for something you had when you were kicked off it, even if it is a progressive disease. You need to show new symptoms that by themselves are disabling or another qualifying ailment. And also getting on disability in the first place is such a huge pile of bureaucratic nonsense and bullshit to start with that you have to learn how to "game" the system just to get approval. It isn't setup to try and help people who need it, it is setup to disincentivize everybody as much as possible, even if you have serious brain damage, are nearly blind, and only have 3 fingers.
- thebigspacefuck 1y agoSomeone at my work posted that because they have ADHD they were able to get a free lifetime pass to National Parks because being in nature calms them. I can’t believe some people. If you have the money to support national parks, pay for the pass. Don’t you realize if everyone does this we won’t have any more National Parks? They are at a Director level, they can travel, and somehow ADHD is a disability? You wouldn’t know it if they didn’t tell you every time they introduced themselves. They’re like, “Ugh ADHD made me so driven I got to the Director level it’s so stressful…”.
- kathywaterman59 1y ago[dead]
- kathywaterman59 1y ago[dead]