4 ms·

I don’t think so, actually. Real estate is a pretty small sector of the economy (maybe 13 or 14% of GDP according to Google. That’s about as much as manufacturi

I don’t think so, actually. Real estate is a pretty small sector of the economy (maybe 13 or 14% of GDP according to Google. That’s about as much as manufacturing, but not politically unassailable. The real reason these sorts of reforms will never kick in is that roughly 2/3 of Americans are in owner occupied housing, it’s the largest asset on most of their balance sheets, and an LVT will in many cases effectively zero that out. So it’s the homeowners (particularly the older cohorts) which will vote against this policy to the detriment of the younger cohort.

chgs 1y ago
Old rich people want young working people to pay for their lives. No surprise there.
- actionfromafar 1y ago
  I wonder what may happen when that generation fades away.
  - sokoloff 1y ago
    Old and young are late-bound. I don’t think any of this is particular to nor confined to a specific generation.
    - actionfromafar 1y ago
      I just meant that, at this time, there is big cohort of old people living in large (and largely empty) houses.
      - sokoloff 1y ago
        That’ll be true when my generation is old and when yours is old as well. My house is well sized for our family of four. I don’t plan to move out when the kids go to college nor as long as I’m able to live independently. People who don’t like that are entitled to their opinion but not to my acting in accordance with their wishes.
        actionfromafar 1y ago
        Thanks, I understand now. That makes sense. It may be though that as the older generation shrinks, the newer generation enacts new zoning regulations. That could change the composition and mix in current residential areas now dominated by large single family houses.
  - chgs 1y ago
    Wealth that isn’t concentrating on the 1% will be diluted as part of inheritance. Those from a poor background will continue to be screwed no matter how well they are doing. Tabitha who makes clogs for shitzus as a job (standard person on uk real Estate shows) will co time to live rent free massive houses while those working and living in the cities massive rent and commuting will do tie to pay far more tax.
sokoloff 1y ago
Which amounts to: “We propose to fix this problem by seizing the value embodied in the homes of 2/3 of Americans, while leaving their mortgages intact.” That being not politically tenable is a feature of democracy, not a bug.
- AnthonyMouse 1y ago
  It is kind of a bug, because otherwise how do you fix it? Housing got set up as a pyramid scheme where the price keeps going up because supply is constrained, so younger people have to take out ever-bigger mortgages in order to have somewhere to live. Nobody wants the prices to be unaffordable until they buy a house, but once they do they're locked in to the high price they bought in at and want prices to go up even more. When you have a majority of people on the hellbound side of the line then you're locked into a death spiral that violently explodes once the prices get so high that the majority can no longer afford a home.
  - sokoloff 1y ago
    There are many other forms of government which are less subject to the influence of the people and their silly preferences. If you don’t want to switch forms of government, formulating a holistic plan, addressing weaknesses in the plan, laying out how the transition will work, educating the people about it, and convincing them why your plan is better is what I’d recommend.
    - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
      The general problem is the "democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner" thing. If you can get at least 51% of people to vote for "I've got mine" then you've created a system of injustice. Which is nominally why we use a republic rather than a direct democracy. But those checks and balances have been eroded over time, or weren't strong enough to begin with, so then the majority e.g. votes to constrain new construction because they value their own short-term financial gain over the greater harm they're causing to the minority. And then the same dynamic plays out for some other issue, but this time you're in the minority and you take -50 damage instead of a +10 gain. So the problem is that it's in everyone's interest to stop this from happening in general, but only in the minority's interest to do it on any particular issue, and democracy in and of itself isn't structured to handle that.

chgs 1y ago

Old rich people want young working people to pay for their lives. No surprise there.

actionfromafar 1y ago
I wonder what may happen when that generation fades away.
- sokoloff 1y ago
  Old and young are late-bound. I don’t think any of this is particular to nor confined to a specific generation.
  - actionfromafar 1y ago
    I just meant that, at this time, there is big cohort of old people living in large (and largely empty) houses.
    - sokoloff 1y ago
      That’ll be true when my generation is old and when yours is old as well. My house is well sized for our family of four. I don’t plan to move out when the kids go to college nor as long as I’m able to live independently. People who don’t like that are entitled to their opinion but not to my acting in accordance with their wishes.
      - actionfromafar 1y ago
        Thanks, I understand now. That makes sense. It may be though that as the older generation shrinks, the newer generation enacts new zoning regulations. That could change the composition and mix in current residential areas now dominated by large single family houses.
- chgs 1y ago
  Wealth that isn’t concentrating on the 1% will be diluted as part of inheritance. Those from a poor background will continue to be screwed no matter how well they are doing. Tabitha who makes clogs for shitzus as a job (standard person on uk real Estate shows) will co time to live rent free massive houses while those working and living in the cities massive rent and commuting will do tie to pay far more tax.

sokoloff 1y ago

Which amounts to: “We propose to fix this problem by seizing the value embodied in the homes of 2/3 of Americans, while leaving their mortgages intact.” That being not politically tenable is a feature of democracy, not a bug.

AnthonyMouse 1y ago
It is kind of a bug, because otherwise how do you fix it? Housing got set up as a pyramid scheme where the price keeps going up because supply is constrained, so younger people have to take out ever-bigger mortgages in order to have somewhere to live. Nobody wants the prices to be unaffordable until they buy a house, but once they do they're locked in to the high price they bought in at and want prices to go up even more. When you have a majority of people on the hellbound side of the line then you're locked into a death spiral that violently explodes once the prices get so high that the majority can no longer afford a home.
- sokoloff 1y ago
  There are many other forms of government which are less subject to the influence of the people and their silly preferences. If you don’t want to switch forms of government, formulating a holistic plan, addressing weaknesses in the plan, laying out how the transition will work, educating the people about it, and convincing them why your plan is better is what I’d recommend.
  - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
    The general problem is the "democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner" thing. If you can get at least 51% of people to vote for "I've got mine" then you've created a system of injustice. Which is nominally why we use a republic rather than a direct democracy. But those checks and balances have been eroded over time, or weren't strong enough to begin with, so then the majority e.g. votes to constrain new construction because they value their own short-term financial gain over the greater harm they're causing to the minority. And then the same dynamic plays out for some other issue, but this time you're in the minority and you take -50 damage instead of a +10 gain. So the problem is that it's in everyone's interest to stop this from happening in general, but only in the minority's interest to do it on any particular issue, and democracy in and of itself isn't structured to handle that.