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Indeed. My point is: so why focus on regulation that targets <0.1% of traffic fatalities? Here's an alternative idea that would save a lot more lives: Take th

Indeed. My point is: so why focus on regulation that targets <0.1% of traffic fatalities? Here's an alternative idea that would save a lot more lives: Take the camera-based driver attention monitoring that works in my seven year-old Tesla, which notices IMMEDIATELY if I look away from the windshield for more than a second or two, and then require that in the human-driven cars. Estimates for annual deaths in the US from distracted driving are between 3,250 and 12,400. An in-cabin camera is not expensive or specialty hardware. The tech is there, the costs are low. We could save a lot of lives! If we're ignoring that to focus on Tesla's FSD, the goal is not sensible regulation or saving lives.

tw04 1y ago
>Indeed. My point is: so why focus on regulation that targets <0.1% of traffic fatalities? A: Citation? Just because it's less than 0.3% of cars on the road doesn't mean it's less than 0.1% of fatalaties. And citation that doesn't let Tesla pass off any FSD crash as "driver error" which they have a horrible habit of doing. If FSD disengages at impact, they call that driver error, which is absolute bullshit. And because Tesla is taking 0 accountability for it, they are passing it onto the driver. They want to have their cake and eat it too. If you or I are driving distractedly and kill someone, we face serious criminal and financial repercussions. If FSD decides to swerve out of the lane and into oncoming taffic, Tesla wants to shrug and say "I guess the driver should have been better". That's trash, and should be banned from our roads summarily.
RollingRo11 1y ago
> Take the camera-based driver attention monitoring that works in my seven year-old Tesla, which notices IMMEDIATELY if I look away from the windshield for more than a second or two, and then require that in the human-driven cars This. Put it on all vehicles that are driven (exc. waymo, zoox, and the like). It looks like something similar is already happening in the EU (with momentum in the US too.) (See https://spyro-soft.com/blog/automotive/driver-monitoring-systems-to-become-mandatory-under-new-eu-and-us-road-safety-regulations https://spyro-soft.com/blog/automotive/driver-monitoring-sys...)
otterley 1y ago
> Take the camera-based driver attention monitoring that works in my seven year-old Tesla, which notices IMMEDIATELY if I look away from the windshield for more than a second or two, and then require that in the human-driven cars. This exists already in Subaru vehicles, even ones with ICEs. It's called "DriverFocus." It's super helpful. However, I don't believe the technology is mandated in all vehicles yet. The driver drowsiness alert in Teslas seems to be much more limited than that. It only activates at speeds over 60km/h, when driven for more than 10 minutes, and when Autopilot is not engaged. I wonder why they disable it when Autopilot is on?
- moduspol 1y ago
  AutoPilot is already independently monitoring driver attentiveness. With FSD, if your eyes are visible, it's watching your eyes. If it can't see your eyes (or you don't have FSD), it falls back to requiring the driver to apply a small and specific bit of torque to the steering wheel consistently. The drowsiness alert would be superfluous when it's watching your eyes. It's already going to yell at you if it can't see your open eyes looking out the windshield for more than a second or two. Whether or not the "steering wheel torque" method is better than a vision-based driver drowsiness alert is probably debatable, but it would be pretty tough to fall asleep while also applying exactly the right amount of torque to keep Autopilot engaged.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    OP's point is a Subaru monitors its driver just as closely as a Tesla but over a broader range of circumstances. You don't need Teslas in your jurisdiction to get this safety win.
toast0 1y ago
I've got a fancy new car with that. It yells at me sometimes when I'm driving down my drive way and looking at my goats instead of the driveway, which is fair. It also yells at me when I look at the mirrors for 'too long' or if I look for 'too long' for potential cross traffic when crossing an intersection (when driving late at night, I try to look for potential red light runners, but you have to spend more time looking). It also tells my spouse to sit up when she already is. Chances are this alert is going to be disabled, because it's a bigger distraction than anything else. It also likes to alert about cross traffic when I start moving to sequence after traffic I saw that is in motion. Those alerts would be handy if it were about traffic I didn't see though, so I don't want to turn them off, even though so far they've been unhelpful.

tw04 1y ago

>Indeed. My point is: so why focus on regulation that targets <0.1% of traffic fatalities? A: Citation? Just because it's less than 0.3% of cars on the road doesn't mean it's less than 0.1% of fatalaties. And citation that doesn't let Tesla pass off any FSD crash as "driver error" which they have a horrible habit of doing. If FSD disengages at impact, they call that driver error, which is absolute bullshit. And because Tesla is taking 0 accountability for it, they are passing it onto the driver. They want to have their cake and eat it too. If you or I are driving distractedly and kill someone, we face serious criminal and financial repercussions. If FSD decides to swerve out of the lane and into oncoming taffic, Tesla wants to shrug and say "I guess the driver should have been better". That's trash, and should be banned from our roads summarily.

RollingRo11 1y ago

> Take the camera-based driver attention monitoring that works in my seven year-old Tesla, which notices IMMEDIATELY if I look away from the windshield for more than a second or two, and then require that in the human-driven cars This. Put it on all vehicles that are driven (exc. waymo, zoox, and the like). It looks like something similar is already happening in the EU (with momentum in the US too.) (See https://spyro-soft.com/blog/automotive/driver-monitoring-systems-to-become-mandatory-under-new-eu-and-us-road-safety-regulations https://spyro-soft.com/blog/automotive/driver-monitoring-sys...)

otterley 1y ago

> Take the camera-based driver attention monitoring that works in my seven year-old Tesla, which notices IMMEDIATELY if I look away from the windshield for more than a second or two, and then require that in the human-driven cars. This exists already in Subaru vehicles, even ones with ICEs. It's called "DriverFocus." It's super helpful. However, I don't believe the technology is mandated in all vehicles yet. The driver drowsiness alert in Teslas seems to be much more limited than that. It only activates at speeds over 60km/h, when driven for more than 10 minutes, and when Autopilot is not engaged. I wonder why they disable it when Autopilot is on?

moduspol 1y ago
AutoPilot is already independently monitoring driver attentiveness. With FSD, if your eyes are visible, it's watching your eyes. If it can't see your eyes (or you don't have FSD), it falls back to requiring the driver to apply a small and specific bit of torque to the steering wheel consistently. The drowsiness alert would be superfluous when it's watching your eyes. It's already going to yell at you if it can't see your open eyes looking out the windshield for more than a second or two. Whether or not the "steering wheel torque" method is better than a vision-based driver drowsiness alert is probably debatable, but it would be pretty tough to fall asleep while also applying exactly the right amount of torque to keep Autopilot engaged.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  OP's point is a Subaru monitors its driver just as closely as a Tesla but over a broader range of circumstances. You don't need Teslas in your jurisdiction to get this safety win.

toast0 1y ago

I've got a fancy new car with that. It yells at me sometimes when I'm driving down my drive way and looking at my goats instead of the driveway, which is fair. It also yells at me when I look at the mirrors for 'too long' or if I look for 'too long' for potential cross traffic when crossing an intersection (when driving late at night, I try to look for potential red light runners, but you have to spend more time looking). It also tells my spouse to sit up when she already is. Chances are this alert is going to be disabled, because it's a bigger distraction than anything else. It also likes to alert about cross traffic when I start moving to sequence after traffic I saw that is in motion. Those alerts would be handy if it were about traffic I didn't see though, so I don't want to turn them off, even though so far they've been unhelpful.