7 ms·

The whole point of the program was to eliminate that business opportunity.

by nitwit005 1y ago

gowld 1y ago
Why? What's wrong with people getting paid to improve upon the government's work?
- braebo 1y ago
  Nothing but that’s not what was happening.
- acdha 1y ago
  The idea is that normal people shouldn’t have to pay to do something the government requires everyone to do. I’ve heard multiple non-Americans express amazement that people with simple jobs have to do anything other than confirm or perhaps update the data which the tax collectors already have because they weren’t thinking of it from the perspective of being a useful marketing tool for fearmongering about the government.
  - tombert 1y ago
    I have told this story before here, but it's relevant. In 2021, I filed my 2020 taxes, and a few months later I get a letter from the IRS saying that I owed $8000 because I forgot to report a large stock transaction. I owed $7000 + a $1000 fine. I wasn't mad at all about the $7000, I definitely owed that and it was just an oversight on my end, these things happen, and I was able to get the fine lowered by calling the IRS [1], so that wasn't a huge deal . What did annoy me was why do I have to do anything? If the IRS knows about the transaction and is able to complain about me not paying enough, that suggests that they already have the information that I'm sending them. Why make me buy software and copy information from a piece of paper into that software, just for the IRS to check it against the numbers that they already have? I understand that you might need to issue corrections, and maybe the software should exist for something like that, but it doesn't seem like it should exist otherwise. [1] Who at least in my case was actually really polite and helpful! I had heard horror stories but that was definitely not the case for me. The people I talked to were very sympathetic and nice.
    - throw678937 1y ago
      They probably know less than you think. (Are you selling stuff at the farmer's market for cash? Did you gift your coin collection to your grandkids?) Making everyone file reduces fraud somewhat – but whether that's worth the country's time and effort is a different story.
      - tombert 1y ago
        You might be right, are there any numbers on that? I feel like primarily-cash businesses already underreport their income.
    - PopAlongKid 1y ago
      > If the IRS knows about the transaction and is able to complain about me not paying enough, that suggests that they already have the information that I'm sending them. You mistakenly assume that simply knowing what is on the 1099-B form is sufficient to determine your tax on the gain. They don't know if you are married or single or head of household (filing status) in the current tax year. They don't know what some of your itemized deductions and other income not reported to them might be (which in turn, along with filing status, determines what marginal tax bracket you are in). They don't know if you are actually just a nominee for someone else's income. These are just a few examples. They don't know any of this stuff until you tell them by filing your complete return.
      - xp84 1y ago
        > They don't know if you are married or single or head of household (filing status) in the current tax year. They don't know what some of your itemized deductions and other income not reported to them might be I think you're misinterpreting the GP's point. Clearly, at least in our current system, it is essential to tell the IRS the parts of the return that they don't already know such as what are your expenses, deductions, marital status, etc. But the absurd thing is that the capture of the IRS by the paid tax prep scammers has prevented them from simply showing you what's on your tax transcripts and having you click "Agree" or "Modify" for each one. Instead, you get your own copy of the 1099-B, 1099-DIV, 1099-INTs, and are administered a pointless "honesty test" to see if you'll type in the same numbers they have, or be automatically punished. Obviously, Direct File was ideally situated to offer this feature since IRS has the data themselves, and simply populating the numbers is a highly efficient way of ingesting the data into your return.
- bee_rider 1y ago
  Solving a government-created problem shouldn’t be a business opportunity, the government just shouldn’t create the problem.
  - sitkack 1y ago
    IRS should send me an itemized bill using every piece of information it already has, I then take that to my accountant that generates a diff based on information they don't have, and then done. You pay the bill they send you, you are done.
    - fanatic2pope 1y ago
      Yes but making taxes easy (or even trivial) will make people less angry about having to do them. Can't have that.
      - actionfromafar 1y ago
        Haha and in case anyone doesn't now, this was an actual GOP argument. :-D
    - OskarS 1y ago
      Just, as a person outside of the US: the idea that you would need an accountant at all for a private person that isn't a billionarie, is like, crazy. I have a reasonably simple personal economy and it takes me all of five minutes to file my taxes in Sweden. My parents have a much more complicated setup (small private business, own a couple of properties, several deductions, etc.) and it basically is pretty straight-forward for them as well, certainly they don't need an accountant. TurboTax, Intuit and anti-tax Republicans has really fucked with the US expectation of how complicated taxes needs to be.
      - tekla 1y ago
        As a person who lives inside the US, I'm perfectly happy that the government doesn't have perfect information about me, and that I can spend $100 on an accountant who will help save much more money on taxes

The whole point of the program was to eliminate that business opportunity.

gowld 1y ago

Why? What's wrong with people getting paid to improve upon the government's work?

braebo 1y ago
Nothing but that’s not what was happening.
acdha 1y ago
The idea is that normal people shouldn’t have to pay to do something the government requires everyone to do. I’ve heard multiple non-Americans express amazement that people with simple jobs have to do anything other than confirm or perhaps update the data which the tax collectors already have because they weren’t thinking of it from the perspective of being a useful marketing tool for fearmongering about the government.
- tombert 1y ago
  I have told this story before here, but it's relevant. In 2021, I filed my 2020 taxes, and a few months later I get a letter from the IRS saying that I owed $8000 because I forgot to report a large stock transaction. I owed $7000 + a $1000 fine. I wasn't mad at all about the $7000, I definitely owed that and it was just an oversight on my end, these things happen, and I was able to get the fine lowered by calling the IRS [1], so that wasn't a huge deal . What did annoy me was why do I have to do anything? If the IRS knows about the transaction and is able to complain about me not paying enough, that suggests that they already have the information that I'm sending them. Why make me buy software and copy information from a piece of paper into that software, just for the IRS to check it against the numbers that they already have? I understand that you might need to issue corrections, and maybe the software should exist for something like that, but it doesn't seem like it should exist otherwise. [1] Who at least in my case was actually really polite and helpful! I had heard horror stories but that was definitely not the case for me. The people I talked to were very sympathetic and nice.
  - throw678937 1y ago
    They probably know less than you think. (Are you selling stuff at the farmer's market for cash? Did you gift your coin collection to your grandkids?) Making everyone file reduces fraud somewhat – but whether that's worth the country's time and effort is a different story.
    - tombert 1y ago
      You might be right, are there any numbers on that? I feel like primarily-cash businesses already underreport their income.
  - PopAlongKid 1y ago
    > If the IRS knows about the transaction and is able to complain about me not paying enough, that suggests that they already have the information that I'm sending them. You mistakenly assume that simply knowing what is on the 1099-B form is sufficient to determine your tax on the gain. They don't know if you are married or single or head of household (filing status) in the current tax year. They don't know what some of your itemized deductions and other income not reported to them might be (which in turn, along with filing status, determines what marginal tax bracket you are in). They don't know if you are actually just a nominee for someone else's income. These are just a few examples. They don't know any of this stuff until you tell them by filing your complete return.
    - xp84 1y ago
      > They don't know if you are married or single or head of household (filing status) in the current tax year. They don't know what some of your itemized deductions and other income not reported to them might be I think you're misinterpreting the GP's point. Clearly, at least in our current system, it is essential to tell the IRS the parts of the return that they don't already know such as what are your expenses, deductions, marital status, etc. But the absurd thing is that the capture of the IRS by the paid tax prep scammers has prevented them from simply showing you what's on your tax transcripts and having you click "Agree" or "Modify" for each one. Instead, you get your own copy of the 1099-B, 1099-DIV, 1099-INTs, and are administered a pointless "honesty test" to see if you'll type in the same numbers they have, or be automatically punished. Obviously, Direct File was ideally situated to offer this feature since IRS has the data themselves, and simply populating the numbers is a highly efficient way of ingesting the data into your return.
bee_rider 1y ago
Solving a government-created problem shouldn’t be a business opportunity, the government just shouldn’t create the problem.
- sitkack 1y ago
  IRS should send me an itemized bill using every piece of information it already has, I then take that to my accountant that generates a diff based on information they don't have, and then done. You pay the bill they send you, you are done.
  - fanatic2pope 1y ago
    Yes but making taxes easy (or even trivial) will make people less angry about having to do them. Can't have that.
    - actionfromafar 1y ago
      Haha and in case anyone doesn't now, this was an actual GOP argument. :-D
  - OskarS 1y ago
    Just, as a person outside of the US: the idea that you would need an accountant at all for a private person that isn't a billionarie, is like, crazy. I have a reasonably simple personal economy and it takes me all of five minutes to file my taxes in Sweden. My parents have a much more complicated setup (small private business, own a couple of properties, several deductions, etc.) and it basically is pretty straight-forward for them as well, certainly they don't need an accountant. TurboTax, Intuit and anti-tax Republicans has really fucked with the US expectation of how complicated taxes needs to be.
    - tekla 1y ago
      As a person who lives inside the US, I'm perfectly happy that the government doesn't have perfect information about me, and that I can spend $100 on an accountant who will help save much more money on taxes