5 ms·

> This will also compound the Qanon fascination with "medical freedom", where the patient gets to dictate to the doctor what to do (i.e. use ivermectin against

> This will also compound the Qanon fascination with "medical freedom", where the patient gets to dictate to the doctor what to do (i.e. use ivermectin against COVID, or whatever other superstition rises to the top of the Qanon imagination cauldron). That's very double-edged. The open question is should humans have the right to take substances individually? Sure, you get Ivermectin/covid deniers. But you also get homemade Solvaldi (cure for Hepatitis C). I can make it for $300 for the 12 week course, and it retail costs $84000 Of course, even making and taking this drug you manufacture is illegal, even aside patent bullshit. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42538903 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42538903 But why shouldn't I be able to treat myself? Why do we accept really shitty gatekeepers (medical establishment, doctors) gatekeep treatments and cures from us? And more currently, now that der fuhrer quit the emergency use allocation for Covid shots, now you need a doctors scrip for 'allowing to get a vaccine'. I should be able to get this if I pay for it. But nope, now need to pay for needless doctor payment and more barriers. So at least in that side, I'm on Qanon's view that I should be able to personally treat myself with whatever substance I deem. Of course, I'll definitely heed a doctor's suggestion as an expert. But fuck.. My body, my choice.

sorokod 1y ago
> But why shouldn't I be able to treat myself? Consider this analogy: you should be allowed to put a gun to your own head and pull the trigger. You should not be allowed to put on a suicide vest and blow yourself up in a group of people.
- mystraline 1y ago
  To the first, yes, I do believe that we humans SHOULD have a right to commit suicide. It should be a right to end your own life. We have a 'right' drink a handle of whiskey a day, up to the point we get liver disease. Same with smoking 3 packs a day of cigarettes. Same with horrendous diet. But those ways of killing yourself are "acceptable" and also legal. But they're slower. The second, you're harming other people. That example is blatantly ridiculous, and appears just to gain an emotional response by invoking terrorism.
  - sorokod 1y ago
    "you're harming other people", yes as in the case where you are contagious.
    - bigbadfeline 1y ago
      > "you're harming other people", yes as in the case where you are contagious. Have you watched a movie lately? Talk about contagious violence. I can tell you this, your fate is just a blip on the back side of other people's large screen TV where the movies are shown.
Spivak 1y ago
I go further and say that you should be able to buy any drug from the pharmacy without a prescription*. As well as testing kits. Having to have an ongoing relationship with a doctor just to refill your medication or get antibiotics when you get strep is a huge waste of everyone's time and money. And there are countries where you can already do this and they haven't collapsed. It makes the job of pharmacist actually matter as someone other than a pill counter. It ends so many stupid discussions we have in the US. Can this medication be prescribed for an off-label use? Who cares because you can just buy it. Do you meet some arbitrary federal weight guideline for Ozempic? Who cares you can just buy it. * every rule has exceptions, don't get bogged down with them.
- bediger4000 1y ago
  If use of a drug had no, or very little externalities, id agree. Overuse of antibiotics creates resistant bacteria, endangering everyone. I am forced to disagree civilly, sir.
  - mystraline 1y ago
    A large portion of antibiotic resistance comes from patients taking a partial prescription, feeling better, and discontinuing the rest of the pills. In that situation (the only one at this time), is the majority of resistances are made. Controlling the supply, especially if you know you have a bacterial disease, can be solved readily. In fact, on a camping trip, I was bit by 15 ticks. Was bad. When I got back to civilization, I started getting spots all over my body. Surprise, it was rocky mountain spotted fever. But if I could determine the 2 drugs for curing spotted fever and Lyme, I absolutely would have did both. But the shitty gatekeeper (doctor) wouldn't do Lyme course. Again, logically made a lot of sense, especially that Lyme tests are 60% accurate. And, 15 ticks.
    - bediger4000 1y ago
      You're not really saying that the populous would finish more courses of over-the-counter antibiotics, are you? Prescriptionless antibiotics would almost axiomatically make that worse.
add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
Combatting medical Dunning-Kruger should be within the scope of public health.
- bediger4000 1y ago
  We as a society spent the last 3-4 years kneecapping public health laws and authorities. There have been numerous state level rollbacks of authority, did that public health officials don't have the authority to impose mask mandates, or advise social distancing.
- mystraline 1y ago
  What happens when your benign dictator (FDA), turns not so benign? Like, covid shots. Now you need to beg a doctor to get them. Hope you pass their gatekeeping test. Or now women are being arrested and charged with murder for miscarriages and missing periods. And there's another round of "get rid of ACA, which includes banning non-coverage of preexisting conditions. Treating yourself is a strong protection of not being covered. RFK is going through medical records across the country for anybody with autism, ADD, and ADHD. What and how are these lists being used for? (I know how the German nazies used them...) My body, my choice.
Vilian 1y ago
>I can make it for $300 for the 12 week course, and it retail costs $84000 A problem that only exist in USA, you could follow literally any other country and you wouldn't get the same problem, and no other country avoided that issue but letting dumb people take dumb things that they heard in the internet
os2warpman 1y ago
> Of course, even making and taking this drug you manufacture is illegal This is not true. In the United States GENERALLY SPEAKING you can manufacture any substance that is not on the list of controlled substances on the CSA Schedule. You cannot sell it or administer it to others. Also IN GENERAL you can consume any substance that is not illegal to possess or manufacture. In the non-pharmaceutical realm there are a few additional restrictions, like ethanol (which you can manufacture for industrial use but not human consumption) and various nuclear, biological, and chemical munition components. (Don't know how many people are ingesting those) If you have the ability, you can manufacture your own sofosbuvir and ingest it. You cannot sell or give it to anyone else.

sorokod 1y ago

> But why shouldn't I be able to treat myself? Consider this analogy: you should be allowed to put a gun to your own head and pull the trigger. You should not be allowed to put on a suicide vest and blow yourself up in a group of people.

mystraline 1y ago
To the first, yes, I do believe that we humans SHOULD have a right to commit suicide. It should be a right to end your own life. We have a 'right' drink a handle of whiskey a day, up to the point we get liver disease. Same with smoking 3 packs a day of cigarettes. Same with horrendous diet. But those ways of killing yourself are "acceptable" and also legal. But they're slower. The second, you're harming other people. That example is blatantly ridiculous, and appears just to gain an emotional response by invoking terrorism.
- sorokod 1y ago
  "you're harming other people", yes as in the case where you are contagious.
  - bigbadfeline 1y ago
    > "you're harming other people", yes as in the case where you are contagious. Have you watched a movie lately? Talk about contagious violence. I can tell you this, your fate is just a blip on the back side of other people's large screen TV where the movies are shown.

Spivak 1y ago

I go further and say that you should be able to buy any drug from the pharmacy without a prescription*. As well as testing kits. Having to have an ongoing relationship with a doctor just to refill your medication or get antibiotics when you get strep is a huge waste of everyone's time and money. And there are countries where you can already do this and they haven't collapsed. It makes the job of pharmacist actually matter as someone other than a pill counter. It ends so many stupid discussions we have in the US. Can this medication be prescribed for an off-label use? Who cares because you can just buy it. Do you meet some arbitrary federal weight guideline for Ozempic? Who cares you can just buy it. * every rule has exceptions, don't get bogged down with them.

bediger4000 1y ago
If use of a drug had no, or very little externalities, id agree. Overuse of antibiotics creates resistant bacteria, endangering everyone. I am forced to disagree civilly, sir.
- mystraline 1y ago
  A large portion of antibiotic resistance comes from patients taking a partial prescription, feeling better, and discontinuing the rest of the pills. In that situation (the only one at this time), is the majority of resistances are made. Controlling the supply, especially if you know you have a bacterial disease, can be solved readily. In fact, on a camping trip, I was bit by 15 ticks. Was bad. When I got back to civilization, I started getting spots all over my body. Surprise, it was rocky mountain spotted fever. But if I could determine the 2 drugs for curing spotted fever and Lyme, I absolutely would have did both. But the shitty gatekeeper (doctor) wouldn't do Lyme course. Again, logically made a lot of sense, especially that Lyme tests are 60% accurate. And, 15 ticks.
  - bediger4000 1y ago
    You're not really saying that the populous would finish more courses of over-the-counter antibiotics, are you? Prescriptionless antibiotics would almost axiomatically make that worse.

add-sub-mul-div 1y ago

Combatting medical Dunning-Kruger should be within the scope of public health.

bediger4000 1y ago
We as a society spent the last 3-4 years kneecapping public health laws and authorities. There have been numerous state level rollbacks of authority, did that public health officials don't have the authority to impose mask mandates, or advise social distancing.
mystraline 1y ago
What happens when your benign dictator (FDA), turns not so benign? Like, covid shots. Now you need to beg a doctor to get them. Hope you pass their gatekeeping test. Or now women are being arrested and charged with murder for miscarriages and missing periods. And there's another round of "get rid of ACA, which includes banning non-coverage of preexisting conditions. Treating yourself is a strong protection of not being covered. RFK is going through medical records across the country for anybody with autism, ADD, and ADHD. What and how are these lists being used for? (I know how the German nazies used them...) My body, my choice.

Vilian 1y ago

>I can make it for $300 for the 12 week course, and it retail costs $84000 A problem that only exist in USA, you could follow literally any other country and you wouldn't get the same problem, and no other country avoided that issue but letting dumb people take dumb things that they heard in the internet

os2warpman 1y ago

> Of course, even making and taking this drug you manufacture is illegal This is not true. In the United States GENERALLY SPEAKING you can manufacture any substance that is not on the list of controlled substances on the CSA Schedule. You cannot sell it or administer it to others. Also IN GENERAL you can consume any substance that is not illegal to possess or manufacture. In the non-pharmaceutical realm there are a few additional restrictions, like ethanol (which you can manufacture for industrial use but not human consumption) and various nuclear, biological, and chemical munition components. (Don't know how many people are ingesting those) If you have the ability, you can manufacture your own sofosbuvir and ingest it. You cannot sell or give it to anyone else.