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The Renaissance might have been a golden age in certain fields, but it was a thoroughly unpleasant era in other fields. For example, people started burning "wit

by toyg 1y ago

The Renaissance might have been a golden age in certain fields, but it was a thoroughly unpleasant era in other fields. For example, people started burning "witches" at unprecedented rates. And nobody at the time was even aware that they were in a "golden age" of any kind.

IAmBroom 1y ago
I wouldn't call "treatment of 'witches'" a field, per se. That aside, I agree it wasn't a "golden age". It was, if anything, a diversion in the flow of the river of Western history: humanism, prostestantism, perspective in drawing, and a noticeable increase in technical invention and scientific formalism truly changed the status quo permanently and markedly.
- anovikov 1y ago
  Renaissance is a lot older than that. Renaissance was over by 1527, merely a decade after the 95 Theses when Protestantism was just getting started, still haven't had any cultural impact - and the rest of the things mentioned not started at all. "Scientific formalism" arguably started with Newton's "Principia Mathematica" whole 160 years later.
  - AnimalMuppet 1y ago
    That's oddly specific. What's your criterion for "Renaissance over", and why does it fit 1527? I mean, if you're defining "Renaissance" as "High Renaissance only", and "over" as "sack of Rome", then yes, I suppose that fits. But the High Renaissance is only about 40 years, whereas the Renaissance is much larger.
neom 1y ago
Couldn't trespass on church monopolies over healing and arbitration, after all!
A_D_E_P_T 1y ago
Witch-burning was really a late-16th/early-17th century thing. It's to some extent true, if you want to really simplify things, that the Renaissance was a golden age only for Italy and the Western Med, and, as it waned, it turned into a dark age for the German-speaking lands of the HRE. At the peak of the Renaissance, the Germans were producing Gutenberg-style printing, Dürer’s workshop, and the beginnings of a formidable university network... So it was a time of considerable progress in the arts and sciences, even there, even if that progress was soon turned to rather dark ends. (With the printing press, in a sense, directly responsible for Reformation pamphlets -- leading, thus, to the immense carnage of the 30 Years War -- and popular witch-hunting tomes like the Malleus Maleficarum.)
- brudgers 1y ago
  The oldest university was founded in 1088. Universities are "medieval" for whatever that word actually means. And while burning witches might have been later, the Renaissance certainly burned a fair number of heretics.
CaffeineLD50 1y ago
We still have witch hunts both figuratively and literally - we assign blame to innocent parties and jail or unelect them. And awareness is irrelevant. When I listened to the golden age of punk rock (IMHO) I didn't need to be aware of it: its self awareness changes nothing And there was no "field" of witch hunting: but even if it is conceded to be so, what's wrong with a good witch burning and hanging now then? Now we "cancel" or censor (or on HN down vote 'trolls') which is no different. Intolerance and demonizing just takes different forms in different ages.
- andsoitis 1y ago
  > a good witch burning and hanging now then? Now we "cancel" or censor (or on HN down vote 'trolls') which is no different. Literal physical violence and death is VERY different to getting canceled or censored.
  - CaffeineLD50 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - tomhow 1y ago
      > But yes, Mr. Obvious, they are literally different. Touché. You've been asked before to avoid commenting in the flamewar style on Hacker News. If you keep doing it we'll have to ban the account. Please make an effort to show you intend to use HN the way it's intended.
      - CaffeineLD50 1y ago
        I am unaware of any such warning nor do I know what a flamewar style is. Ban away. I don't need you.
        tomhow 1y ago
        You were asked after this comment a couple of months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43316311 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43316311 We can do without the defiance, we just need everyone to remember that this is only a good place for discussing anything because enough people make an effort observe the guidelines. Please do you part to make the place better not worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by toyg 1y ago

IAmBroom 1y ago

I wouldn't call "treatment of 'witches'" a field, per se. That aside, I agree it wasn't a "golden age". It was, if anything, a diversion in the flow of the river of Western history: humanism, prostestantism, perspective in drawing, and a noticeable increase in technical invention and scientific formalism truly changed the status quo permanently and markedly.

anovikov 1y ago
Renaissance is a lot older than that. Renaissance was over by 1527, merely a decade after the 95 Theses when Protestantism was just getting started, still haven't had any cultural impact - and the rest of the things mentioned not started at all. "Scientific formalism" arguably started with Newton's "Principia Mathematica" whole 160 years later.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  That's oddly specific. What's your criterion for "Renaissance over", and why does it fit 1527? I mean, if you're defining "Renaissance" as "High Renaissance only", and "over" as "sack of Rome", then yes, I suppose that fits. But the High Renaissance is only about 40 years, whereas the Renaissance is much larger.

neom 1y ago

Couldn't trespass on church monopolies over healing and arbitration, after all!

A_D_E_P_T 1y ago

Witch-burning was really a late-16th/early-17th century thing. It's to some extent true, if you want to really simplify things, that the Renaissance was a golden age only for Italy and the Western Med, and, as it waned, it turned into a dark age for the German-speaking lands of the HRE. At the peak of the Renaissance, the Germans were producing Gutenberg-style printing, Dürer’s workshop, and the beginnings of a formidable university network... So it was a time of considerable progress in the arts and sciences, even there, even if that progress was soon turned to rather dark ends. (With the printing press, in a sense, directly responsible for Reformation pamphlets -- leading, thus, to the immense carnage of the 30 Years War -- and popular witch-hunting tomes like the Malleus Maleficarum.)

brudgers 1y ago
The oldest university was founded in 1088. Universities are "medieval" for whatever that word actually means. And while burning witches might have been later, the Renaissance certainly burned a fair number of heretics.

CaffeineLD50 1y ago

We still have witch hunts both figuratively and literally - we assign blame to innocent parties and jail or unelect them. And awareness is irrelevant. When I listened to the golden age of punk rock (IMHO) I didn't need to be aware of it: its self awareness changes nothing And there was no "field" of witch hunting: but even if it is conceded to be so, what's wrong with a good witch burning and hanging now then? Now we "cancel" or censor (or on HN down vote 'trolls') which is no different. Intolerance and demonizing just takes different forms in different ages.

andsoitis 1y ago
> a good witch burning and hanging now then? Now we "cancel" or censor (or on HN down vote 'trolls') which is no different. Literal physical violence and death is VERY different to getting canceled or censored.
- CaffeineLD50 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - tomhow 1y ago
    > But yes, Mr. Obvious, they are literally different. Touché. You've been asked before to avoid commenting in the flamewar style on Hacker News. If you keep doing it we'll have to ban the account. Please make an effort to show you intend to use HN the way it's intended.
    - CaffeineLD50 1y ago
      I am unaware of any such warning nor do I know what a flamewar style is. Ban away. I don't need you.
      - tomhow 1y ago
        You were asked after this comment a couple of months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43316311 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43316311 We can do without the defiance, we just need everyone to remember that this is only a good place for discussing anything because enough people make an effort observe the guidelines. Please do you part to make the place better not worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html