3 ms·

Lots of comments here equating Trump = Fascism but I think this is more of a "Western Dunning Kruger" effect. I'm from Russia and out there we know what real f

Lots of comments here equating Trump = Fascism but I think this is more of a "Western Dunning Kruger" effect. I'm from Russia and out there we know what real fascism looks like, it isn't mean tweets or cutting government funding, it's direct oppression from speech, activism, etc. In Russia if you wanted to go protest something the government is doing, there is a very very high chance that you will get picked up by the cops. Sure that could happen in the US or other western countries but in a place like Russia or China, it's highly likely. Here in the US and other western countries, a person can go their entire life without being exposed to what real fascism is and what real oppression is. So it's easy for us to take relatively small things and assume that means we are headed towards a fascist state. I would say the situation in the US isn't great, but ask anyone from Eastern Europe or Russia and they will all tell you that compared to their home country, the US might as well be disneyland.

n4r9 1y ago
I think the claim being considered is not The current system of government in the US under Trump is an instance of fascism but rather Trump and his movement have strongly fascist characteristics The fact that Trump is limited in his executive power (for now) means that the system is robust and has checks and balances. It does not make Trump himself is less of a fascist.
- Supermancho 1y ago
  Trump plainly believes that the entirety of government (domestic and foreign), education, industry and media should all support the executive power as he wields it. Not the structure of law in place, nor the cultural norms. Not even the predecessor that wielded less power is spared, despite hypocritical acts. There's nothing more transparently fascist than this administration. The primary bulwark has been the socialization of the populace to oppose this behavior. The courts are viewed as a shelter, as feckless as they have been over the last 6 months. When moves are made over the next few years, that are more desperate and heavy handed, I would hope for conciliation.
dgb23 1y ago
As I said in a top level comment, the better term is competitive authoritarianism. They tend to do what they can get away with and try to push that limit. One can argue about the specifics but Trump's administration certainly fits that style to a very large degree. > direct oppression from speech, activism People have been arrested in the US lately for activism and in many cases without any justification. I doesn't seem like the administration will get away with it, but they certainly seem to try.
IAmBroom 1y ago
Absolutely agree. However, I think we are seeing people in power in the US attempting to move us toward that more-real definition of fascism. At the risk of the "slippery slope" fallacy... we should be concerned, at the least.
archagon 1y ago
I’m also from Russia, and it’s very clear to me that we’re heading straight in that direction. See the executive’s revenge policies against Harvard and Columbia, law firms, media networks, and student activists. If things keep going as they are, it won’t be long before protesters start getting black-bagged and shipped to some desert concentration camp. Putin needed a decade to get to that point.
- k3vinw 1y ago
  Ha! Are you sure about that? These so called student activities have been anything but peaceful. And they are being instigated on American soil by foreigners which is an obvious violation of their Visa stays.
  - archagon 1y ago
    At least one of the students illegally detained did nothing more than write a few columns in her school newspaper. (And I think it's similar for several others, but I don't recall off the top of my head.)
Supermancho 1y ago
> I'm from Russia and out there we know what real fascism looks like, it isn't mean tweets or cutting government funding, it's direct oppression from speech, activism, etc. Real fascism is no different than the current US Executive. The difference is the amount of power currently wielded. > Here in the US and other western countries, a person can go their entire life without being exposed to what real fascism is and what real oppression is The common case is that Americans don't recognize it because it's so incremental that the larger goals are a footnote in discussions around specific acts or outlive the constituents/promoters. This state of executive vs a compromised judicial has been in the works since before I was born.
popalchemist 1y ago
This is just a "no true scottsman" fallacy applied to what constitutes fascism. Bad bot.

n4r9 1y ago

I think the claim being considered is not The current system of government in the US under Trump is an instance of fascism but rather Trump and his movement have strongly fascist characteristics The fact that Trump is limited in his executive power (for now) means that the system is robust and has checks and balances. It does not make Trump himself is less of a fascist.

Supermancho 1y ago
Trump plainly believes that the entirety of government (domestic and foreign), education, industry and media should all support the executive power as he wields it. Not the structure of law in place, nor the cultural norms. Not even the predecessor that wielded less power is spared, despite hypocritical acts. There's nothing more transparently fascist than this administration. The primary bulwark has been the socialization of the populace to oppose this behavior. The courts are viewed as a shelter, as feckless as they have been over the last 6 months. When moves are made over the next few years, that are more desperate and heavy handed, I would hope for conciliation.

dgb23 1y ago

As I said in a top level comment, the better term is competitive authoritarianism. They tend to do what they can get away with and try to push that limit. One can argue about the specifics but Trump's administration certainly fits that style to a very large degree. > direct oppression from speech, activism People have been arrested in the US lately for activism and in many cases without any justification. I doesn't seem like the administration will get away with it, but they certainly seem to try.

IAmBroom 1y ago

Absolutely agree. However, I think we are seeing people in power in the US attempting to move us toward that more-real definition of fascism. At the risk of the "slippery slope" fallacy... we should be concerned, at the least.

archagon 1y ago

I’m also from Russia, and it’s very clear to me that we’re heading straight in that direction. See the executive’s revenge policies against Harvard and Columbia, law firms, media networks, and student activists. If things keep going as they are, it won’t be long before protesters start getting black-bagged and shipped to some desert concentration camp. Putin needed a decade to get to that point.

k3vinw 1y ago
Ha! Are you sure about that? These so called student activities have been anything but peaceful. And they are being instigated on American soil by foreigners which is an obvious violation of their Visa stays.
- archagon 1y ago
  At least one of the students illegally detained did nothing more than write a few columns in her school newspaper. (And I think it's similar for several others, but I don't recall off the top of my head.)

Supermancho 1y ago

> I'm from Russia and out there we know what real fascism looks like, it isn't mean tweets or cutting government funding, it's direct oppression from speech, activism, etc. Real fascism is no different than the current US Executive. The difference is the amount of power currently wielded. > Here in the US and other western countries, a person can go their entire life without being exposed to what real fascism is and what real oppression is The common case is that Americans don't recognize it because it's so incremental that the larger goals are a footnote in discussions around specific acts or outlive the constituents/promoters. This state of executive vs a compromised judicial has been in the works since before I was born.

popalchemist 1y ago

This is just a "no true scottsman" fallacy applied to what constitutes fascism. Bad bot.