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I'm hoping to hear some good news at WWDC for swift development in editors other than Xcode (VSCode, Neovim, etc.) Last year they said "we need to meet backend

by quux 1y ago

I'm hoping to hear some good news at WWDC for swift development in editors other than Xcode (VSCode, Neovim, etc.) Last year they said "we need to meet backend developers where they are" and announced plans to improve sourcekit-lsp and other efforts.

sureglymop 1y ago
I hope so too! We even have an official Kotlin LSP now... maybe that serve as inspiration.
- rescripting 1y ago
  Swift has an official LSP: https://github.com/swiftlang/sourcekit-lsp https://github.com/swiftlang/sourcekit-lsp It was first released 7 years ago.
  - sureglymop 1y ago
    Thanks for letting me know! I had no idea...
candiddevmike 1y ago
IMO, Apple has quite the track record of never "meeting X where they are". They could make Xcode cross platform, but they never will.
- st3fan 1y ago
  There would be no point in doing that. All the devs they care about already have Macs. If you are on Windows or Linux and you want to work on Swift server side code then you can use their official LSP or VSCode extension in your favorite editor.
  - tough 1y ago
    There's always XTool https://github.com/xtool-org/xtool https://github.com/xtool-org/xtool
- klausa 1y ago
  Xcode is probably like, one of the top… 3? 5? biggest macOS-native applications in the world. Making it cross-platform would require either reimplementing it from scratch, or doing a Safari-on-Windows level of shenanigans of reimplementing AppKit on other platforms.
  - AdamN 1y ago
    Xcode on Windows/Linux would be wacky and not worth the effort - it's very tightly coupled to MacOS so effectively impossible imho. People targeting MacOS/iOS aren't typically running Windows on the desktop. The more critical thing to meeting developers where they are would be for the entire developer loop to be doable from a JetBrains IDE on MacOS.
    - cosmic_cheese 1y ago
      > People targeting MacOS/iOS aren't typically running Windows on the desktop. Or if they are, they're treating macOS/iOS as “blind targets” where those platforms are rarely if ever QA’d or dogfooded. > The more critical thing to meeting developers where they are would be for the entire developer loop to be doable from a JetBrains IDE on MacOS. I think most current Apple platform devs would be happiest if they were equipped with the tools to build their own IDEs/toolchains/etc, so e.g. Panic's Nova could feasibly have an iOS/macOS/etc dev plugin or someone could turn Sublime Text into a minimalistic Apple platform IDE. JetBrains IDEs certainly have a wide following but among the longtime Mac user devs in particular they’re not seen as quite the panacea they’re presented as in the larger dev community.
  - rafram 1y ago
    > Safari-on-Windows level of shenanigans of reimplementing AppKit on other platforms I was curious about this, so I downloaded it to take a look. It doesn't look like they actually shipped AppKit, at least as a separate DLL, but they did ship DLLs for Foundation, Core Graphics, and a few other core macOS frameworks.
    - quux 1y ago
- paxys 1y ago
  Who even wants Xcode to be cross platform? People can barely tolerate it on macs. What you really mean is people want the iOS development toolchain to be cross platform, and that would mean porting iOS to run in a hypervisor on linux/windows (to get the simulator to work). That is way too big a lift to make sense.
  - atonse 1y ago
    Exactly. I’ve never wanted Xcode in more places. When I used to be a native mobile dev, I wanted to not have to use Xcode. And it’s technically possible. But totally not smooth as of a few years ago.
st3fan 1y ago
This project is getting more mature https://github.com/swiftlang/vscode-swift https://github.com/swiftlang/vscode-swift And https://github.com/swiftlang/sourcekit-lsp https://github.com/swiftlang/sourcekit-lsp an be used in any LSP compatible editor like Neovim.
lawgimenez 1y ago
My main wish for Apple this upcoming WWDC is to make Xcode not make my M2 super hot.
elpakal 1y ago
Ive wanted this for years. FWIW I've used CLion's Swift plugin for my pure SPM projects and it's actually decent.
kridsdale1 1y ago
I’ve been writing iOS apps primarily for 15 years. I haven’t had to use Xcode since about 2016 since Facebook and Google have fully capable VSCode based editors with distributed builds in the Linux clouds. It’s pretty great, but I don’t know of an open source version of this system. That is, integration with Bazel/Buck that can build iOS on non-Mac hardware.
DavidPiper 1y ago
Swift SourceKit LSP + VSCode is actually pretty good these days. I recently got it working with CMake for a Swift / CMake project, and the only real pain in that was getting CMake set up properly. Everything else worked out of the box with VSCode's extension manager.

by quux 1y ago

sureglymop 1y ago

I hope so too! We even have an official Kotlin LSP now... maybe that serve as inspiration.

rescripting 1y ago
Swift has an official LSP: https://github.com/swiftlang/sourcekit-lsp https://github.com/swiftlang/sourcekit-lsp It was first released 7 years ago.
- sureglymop 1y ago
  Thanks for letting me know! I had no idea...

candiddevmike 1y ago

IMO, Apple has quite the track record of never "meeting X where they are". They could make Xcode cross platform, but they never will.

st3fan 1y ago
There would be no point in doing that. All the devs they care about already have Macs. If you are on Windows or Linux and you want to work on Swift server side code then you can use their official LSP or VSCode extension in your favorite editor.
- tough 1y ago
  There's always XTool https://github.com/xtool-org/xtool https://github.com/xtool-org/xtool
klausa 1y ago
Xcode is probably like, one of the top… 3? 5? biggest macOS-native applications in the world. Making it cross-platform would require either reimplementing it from scratch, or doing a Safari-on-Windows level of shenanigans of reimplementing AppKit on other platforms.
- AdamN 1y ago
  Xcode on Windows/Linux would be wacky and not worth the effort - it's very tightly coupled to MacOS so effectively impossible imho. People targeting MacOS/iOS aren't typically running Windows on the desktop. The more critical thing to meeting developers where they are would be for the entire developer loop to be doable from a JetBrains IDE on MacOS.
  - cosmic_cheese 1y ago
    > People targeting MacOS/iOS aren't typically running Windows on the desktop. Or if they are, they're treating macOS/iOS as “blind targets” where those platforms are rarely if ever QA’d or dogfooded. > The more critical thing to meeting developers where they are would be for the entire developer loop to be doable from a JetBrains IDE on MacOS. I think most current Apple platform devs would be happiest if they were equipped with the tools to build their own IDEs/toolchains/etc, so e.g. Panic's Nova could feasibly have an iOS/macOS/etc dev plugin or someone could turn Sublime Text into a minimalistic Apple platform IDE. JetBrains IDEs certainly have a wide following but among the longtime Mac user devs in particular they’re not seen as quite the panacea they’re presented as in the larger dev community.
- rafram 1y ago
  > Safari-on-Windows level of shenanigans of reimplementing AppKit on other platforms I was curious about this, so I downloaded it to take a look. It doesn't look like they actually shipped AppKit, at least as a separate DLL, but they did ship DLLs for Foundation, Core Graphics, and a few other core macOS frameworks.
  - quux 1y ago
paxys 1y ago
Who even wants Xcode to be cross platform? People can barely tolerate it on macs. What you really mean is people want the iOS development toolchain to be cross platform, and that would mean porting iOS to run in a hypervisor on linux/windows (to get the simulator to work). That is way too big a lift to make sense.
- atonse 1y ago
  Exactly. I’ve never wanted Xcode in more places. When I used to be a native mobile dev, I wanted to not have to use Xcode. And it’s technically possible. But totally not smooth as of a few years ago.

st3fan 1y ago

This project is getting more mature https://github.com/swiftlang/vscode-swift https://github.com/swiftlang/vscode-swift And https://github.com/swiftlang/sourcekit-lsp https://github.com/swiftlang/sourcekit-lsp an be used in any LSP compatible editor like Neovim.

lawgimenez 1y ago

My main wish for Apple this upcoming WWDC is to make Xcode not make my M2 super hot.

elpakal 1y ago

Ive wanted this for years. FWIW I've used CLion's Swift plugin for my pure SPM projects and it's actually decent.

kridsdale1 1y ago

I’ve been writing iOS apps primarily for 15 years. I haven’t had to use Xcode since about 2016 since Facebook and Google have fully capable VSCode based editors with distributed builds in the Linux clouds. It’s pretty great, but I don’t know of an open source version of this system. That is, integration with Bazel/Buck that can build iOS on non-Mac hardware.

DavidPiper 1y ago

Swift SourceKit LSP + VSCode is actually pretty good these days. I recently got it working with CMake for a Swift / CMake project, and the only real pain in that was getting CMake set up properly. Everything else worked out of the box with VSCode's extension manager.