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"He said that each of the 117 drones launched had its own pilot." https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1ld7ppre9vo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1ld7ppre9vo

varjag 1y ago
The drones reportedly flew from their containers to the staging area autonomously, where they were taken over by the pilots for the attack approach.
- bamboozled 1y ago
  Source?
  - varjag 1y ago
    https://x.com/lemonodor/status/1929269307189469624 https://x.com/lemonodor/status/1929269307189469624 You can also see the careful departure of drones from containers in the videos, without extra panning or yaw. Not quite how a human operator would fly them.
    - AlecSchueler 1y ago
      The question was more about the human taking over near the end, no?
    - brightbeige 1y ago
      Thread without log-in https://xcancel.com/lemonodor/status/1929269307189469624 https://xcancel.com/lemonodor/status/1929269307189469624
  - Maxious 1y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJcjt_W8iCo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJcjt_W8iCo
  - Ciantic 1y ago
    Also this: https://www.404media.co/ukraines-massive-drone-attack-was-powered-by-open-source-software/ https://www.404media.co/ukraines-massive-drone-attack-was-po... "ArduPilot can handle tasks like stabilizing a drone in the air while the pilot focuses on moving to their next objective. Pilots can switch them into loitering mode, for example, if they need to step away or perform another task, and it has failsafe modes that keep a drone aloft if signal is lost." So it is not fully autonomous.
    - originalvichy 1y ago
      Not for this task, but could be used autonomously. If they trusted that these planes were still in the same spot, and their GPS coordinates were accurate to 10 cm, then what they could do is just program the drones to fly a preset route at preset heights, stop over the plane's wing and then descend all the way to 0 meters.
      - mandevil 1y ago
        Even with that level of target knowledge (I suspect the US has the investment in the sensor-targeting links to be able to use satellites to know within cm where planes were within a five minute window, but am not sure about other nations) you'd want to have some that were available for later re-targeting to handle misses. Nuclear weapons war plans solve this by relentlessly re-targeting again and again (declassified 1960's USAF war plans called for over 70 different missiles to hit Moscow alone) but with the smaller damage radius of conventional weapons you either end up with a second strike to make sure you get all the survivors of the first strike- or have a trained human who knows the targeting priority in the loop available to update targeting on the fly.
      - varjag 1y ago
        GPS can't be relied on in that heavily denied area. And indeed the screenshots show drones in failsafe mode.
- ladyanita22 1y ago
  So what about the AI part that has been mentioned by several outlets?
  - boxed 1y ago
    I would assume someone speculated and then the hype brain took over and everyone reported it as AI. I've had that happen to the company I work at and we literally have zero AI stuff.
    - dboreham 1y ago
      Hype Brain :) And the language changed just a little bit..
  - shagmin 1y ago
    From my understanding that was to be used as a last resort.
  - DyslexicAtheist 1y ago
    there was this German talking head "Nico Lange" who made this claim first without providing evidence for it. He is an ex politician and a regular in the Munich Security Conference and I assume this is who was (mainly) responsible for spreading it. AI gets so much boost from this nonsense. Because now it's about saving our lives.
netsharc 1y ago
Sun Tzu says it better: "A military operation involves deception." He could be telling the truth, he could be lying... A drone programmed to automatically boot up , check its location, and if it's at the right coordinates, take off and crash at some other coordinates (the airfield) is more satisfying to "fans" of automated warfare. For extra fun, add some other code to "look for plane-like objects to crash into", but now you're approaching dangerous territory of "What if a civilian 737 happens to be boarding at this airfield"... The reports also mention the truck roof opening remotely, one could also use GPS coordinates to trigger this. But doing it manually from a distance, after checking the surveillance cameras that the coast is clear, is more reliable. I guess they used smartphones and SIM cards with mobile data for the remote communication...
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
  They did more than crash at coordinates, they targeted specific parts of the different aircraft.
- RenThraysk 1y ago
  Only need one camera drone capable of identifying targets. And just tells another drone to bomb it.
  - 4gotunameagain 1y ago
    ..in theory. In practice, building such a complex system in a fail safe way is not that easy.
    - RenThraysk 1y ago
      Still only need one camera drone if a human is spotting targets.
      - 4gotunameagain 1y ago
        In theory. In practice you would not allow a single camera drone to be the single point of failure of a mission with such lengthy and risky planning, and dire consequences.
randomtoast 1y ago
How could they be navigated from such a long distance? Satellite communication? Wouldn't the lag be too high?
- yieldcrv 1y ago
  Everyone was right next to the bases in Russia
- sorenjan 1y ago
  Via the regular mobile network according to one article I read. The Ukrainians said that all operators where safely out of Russia when the news broke, so I doubt they where at the airfields several hundreds of kilometers from Ukraine.
- mrandish 1y ago
  To reduce latency, I wonder if the phones were connecting to a covert site in Russia which had a high-bandwidth, lower-latency wired link, maybe a front company established in Russia for the operation with servers and broadband internet connections. Or maybe just a colocated server at a major backbone site in Russia was rented by a Russian front company. Seems like the kind of thing intelligence services do. While I'm sure Russia has more restrictions on renting colocated servers than the U.S., it's still something that needs to happen every day. Russia also has a fairly robust underground economy of less-than-legitimate companies doing illicit things, so there have to be ways for those companies to avoid restrictions (probably involving bribing certain people). If the attack was coordinated this way, I assume whoever sold the colo to Ukrainian intelligence thought they were simply setting up yet another server for a shady Russian scam company. Foreign intelligence services often avoid scrutiny by using the same methods as domestic criminals in the target country.
  - randomtoast 1y ago
    Okay, and GPS is restricted near military installations, but mobile internet remains accessible?
    - 1y ago
barbazoo 1y ago
When you watch some of the footage I feel like it’s clear that there were at least some human controlled drones there.

varjag 1y ago

The drones reportedly flew from their containers to the staging area autonomously, where they were taken over by the pilots for the attack approach.

bamboozled 1y ago
Source?
- varjag 1y ago
  https://x.com/lemonodor/status/1929269307189469624 https://x.com/lemonodor/status/1929269307189469624 You can also see the careful departure of drones from containers in the videos, without extra panning or yaw. Not quite how a human operator would fly them.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    The question was more about the human taking over near the end, no?
  - brightbeige 1y ago
    Thread without log-in https://xcancel.com/lemonodor/status/1929269307189469624 https://xcancel.com/lemonodor/status/1929269307189469624
- Maxious 1y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJcjt_W8iCo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJcjt_W8iCo
- Ciantic 1y ago
  Also this: https://www.404media.co/ukraines-massive-drone-attack-was-powered-by-open-source-software/ https://www.404media.co/ukraines-massive-drone-attack-was-po... "ArduPilot can handle tasks like stabilizing a drone in the air while the pilot focuses on moving to their next objective. Pilots can switch them into loitering mode, for example, if they need to step away or perform another task, and it has failsafe modes that keep a drone aloft if signal is lost." So it is not fully autonomous.
  - originalvichy 1y ago
    Not for this task, but could be used autonomously. If they trusted that these planes were still in the same spot, and their GPS coordinates were accurate to 10 cm, then what they could do is just program the drones to fly a preset route at preset heights, stop over the plane's wing and then descend all the way to 0 meters.
    - mandevil 1y ago
      Even with that level of target knowledge (I suspect the US has the investment in the sensor-targeting links to be able to use satellites to know within cm where planes were within a five minute window, but am not sure about other nations) you'd want to have some that were available for later re-targeting to handle misses. Nuclear weapons war plans solve this by relentlessly re-targeting again and again (declassified 1960's USAF war plans called for over 70 different missiles to hit Moscow alone) but with the smaller damage radius of conventional weapons you either end up with a second strike to make sure you get all the survivors of the first strike- or have a trained human who knows the targeting priority in the loop available to update targeting on the fly.
    - varjag 1y ago
      GPS can't be relied on in that heavily denied area. And indeed the screenshots show drones in failsafe mode.
ladyanita22 1y ago
So what about the AI part that has been mentioned by several outlets?
- boxed 1y ago
  I would assume someone speculated and then the hype brain took over and everyone reported it as AI. I've had that happen to the company I work at and we literally have zero AI stuff.
  - dboreham 1y ago
    Hype Brain :) And the language changed just a little bit..
- shagmin 1y ago
  From my understanding that was to be used as a last resort.
- DyslexicAtheist 1y ago
  there was this German talking head "Nico Lange" who made this claim first without providing evidence for it. He is an ex politician and a regular in the Munich Security Conference and I assume this is who was (mainly) responsible for spreading it. AI gets so much boost from this nonsense. Because now it's about saving our lives.

netsharc 1y ago

Sun Tzu says it better: "A military operation involves deception." He could be telling the truth, he could be lying... A drone programmed to automatically boot up , check its location, and if it's at the right coordinates, take off and crash at some other coordinates (the airfield) is more satisfying to "fans" of automated warfare. For extra fun, add some other code to "look for plane-like objects to crash into", but now you're approaching dangerous territory of "What if a civilian 737 happens to be boarding at this airfield"... The reports also mention the truck roof opening remotely, one could also use GPS coordinates to trigger this. But doing it manually from a distance, after checking the surveillance cameras that the coast is clear, is more reliable. I guess they used smartphones and SIM cards with mobile data for the remote communication...

2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
They did more than crash at coordinates, they targeted specific parts of the different aircraft.
RenThraysk 1y ago
Only need one camera drone capable of identifying targets. And just tells another drone to bomb it.
- 4gotunameagain 1y ago
  ..in theory. In practice, building such a complex system in a fail safe way is not that easy.
  - RenThraysk 1y ago
    Still only need one camera drone if a human is spotting targets.
    - 4gotunameagain 1y ago
      In theory. In practice you would not allow a single camera drone to be the single point of failure of a mission with such lengthy and risky planning, and dire consequences.

randomtoast 1y ago

How could they be navigated from such a long distance? Satellite communication? Wouldn't the lag be too high?

yieldcrv 1y ago
Everyone was right next to the bases in Russia
sorenjan 1y ago
Via the regular mobile network according to one article I read. The Ukrainians said that all operators where safely out of Russia when the news broke, so I doubt they where at the airfields several hundreds of kilometers from Ukraine.
mrandish 1y ago
To reduce latency, I wonder if the phones were connecting to a covert site in Russia which had a high-bandwidth, lower-latency wired link, maybe a front company established in Russia for the operation with servers and broadband internet connections. Or maybe just a colocated server at a major backbone site in Russia was rented by a Russian front company. Seems like the kind of thing intelligence services do. While I'm sure Russia has more restrictions on renting colocated servers than the U.S., it's still something that needs to happen every day. Russia also has a fairly robust underground economy of less-than-legitimate companies doing illicit things, so there have to be ways for those companies to avoid restrictions (probably involving bribing certain people). If the attack was coordinated this way, I assume whoever sold the colo to Ukrainian intelligence thought they were simply setting up yet another server for a shady Russian scam company. Foreign intelligence services often avoid scrutiny by using the same methods as domestic criminals in the target country.
- randomtoast 1y ago
  Okay, and GPS is restricted near military installations, but mobile internet remains accessible?
  - 1y ago

barbazoo 1y ago

When you watch some of the footage I feel like it’s clear that there were at least some human controlled drones there.