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It's something watching Americans and many others, oblivious to the fact that we are on the precipice of another World War. Not much we can do, it's coming and

It's something watching Americans and many others, oblivious to the fact that we are on the precipice of another World War. Not much we can do, it's coming and it's all there for anyone to see if they are looking. The West is going to wish it had done more to help Ukraine, there was a window of opportunity that may have prevented what we're going to be in for.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> Not much we can do, it's coming and it's all there for anyone to see if they are looking Whether it’s a direct confrontation of superpowers is absolutely still in the air. This can be constrained to proxies. (And from there, avoiding a proxy contest going nuclear. Non-proxy conflicts like Israel-Iran and India-Pakistan are out of our control on the nuclear front.) > West is going to wish it had done more to help Ukraine, there was a window of opportunity that may have prevented what we're going to be in for Yes. Unfortunately it seems that the temptation of appeasement isn’t a lesson learned long.
disambiguation 1y ago
Its always the new accounts pushing the weirdest narratives.
throw310822 1y ago
The meaning I get from your comment is: "We're unwillingly and blindly stepping into a war, we should have done more war!" Maybe we should have done less war and less talking about war, don't you think? Talked more with Russia (let alone not provoke it into a confrontation for an entire decade- ask Victoria "fuck the EU" Nuland), built up clear and safe and agreed boundaries, etc.
- kergonath 1y ago
  > Maybe we should have done less war and less talking about war, don't you think? Who is “we”? > Talked more with Russia (let alone not provoke it into a confrontation for an entire decade- ask Victoria "fuck the EU" Nuland), built up clear and safe and agreed boundaries, etc. You realise that there were talks with Russia, including on “clear and safe and agreed boundaries”, right? Russia was a guarantor in the Minsk and Budapest memoranda. As for your point in the middle, it really is strange that smaller countries want to escape Russia’s sphere of influence, considering what they do to their neighbours in Moldova and Georgia, to name but two examples. Never mind Chechnya and now, of course, Ukraine. Russia’s behaviour is the main driving force towards NATO and the EU in Eastern Europe. You are repeating bullshit propaganda.
  - throw310822 1y ago
    Can you explain this? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
    - yetihehe 1y ago
      > The clear purpose in leaking this conversation is to embarrass Washington and for audiences susceptible to Moscow's message to portray the US as interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs. THE whole argument of this one and similar "leaks" is "interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs". Ukrainians see it a little differently: "helping Ukraine escape Russia". But Russia sees it as "helping Ukraine escape Russia, thus interfering in Russia's domestic affairs". When Russians say that someone is "interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs" they mean that Ukraine is Russian and should not be touched by anyone other than Russia.
      - throw310822 1y ago
        Yes, interesting introduction since the entire article is about the proof of US meddling in Ukraine's internal affairs. Also the article: > The US says that it is working with all sides in the crisis to reach a peaceful solution, noting that "ultimately it is up to the Ukrainian people to decide their future". However this transcript suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals > Various officials attempting to marshal the Ukrainian opposition [...] US Vice-President Joe Biden clearly being lined up to give private words of encouragement at the appropriate moment. > the US expresses frustration at the EU's efforts. Washington and Brussels have not been completely in step during the Ukraine crisis. The EU is divided and to some extent hesitant about picking a fight with Moscow. The year is 2014
        yetihehe 1y ago
        You present every quote to look like Ukrainians didn't want to ally with west and that was ONLY because US manipulated them. I'm a Pole. I know EXACTLY why Ukrainians wanted to escape Russia's side. US wanted that too, so they made steps to make Ukrainian wishes true. How to spot Russian propaganda: They treat Ukrainians as Russians that didn't want to go to big bad west, but USA meddled and made them stray from one true Russian way, Ukrainians were only a tool with no agency whatsoever used against Russian peaceful ways.
jemmyw 1y ago
I don't see it. Russia is spent on their war with Ukraine. Whatever ambitions they had beyond that, those are fantastical now. I'm sure plenty of nations are studying the war there and seeing that it is expensive and difficult. And what do you even gain, a war torn country and a population willing to cause you a lot of trouble forever more? If Russia had instead invested their war spending into the economy they would be up far more than they're down. I agree though, that the west should have done far more to help Ukraine.
- tharmas 1y ago
  The plan certainly was to create another Soviet-Afghanistan war in hopes to cut Russia "down to size". Geopolitics. Whether that works time will tell. What is certain however, is the number of the dead and the destruction of Ukraine.
  - jemmyw 1y ago
    I don't think that was the plan at any point. That's just what happened. The politicians in the west wanted things to go back to how they were before the war and never wanted to give enough aid to jeopardize that. Though that has long been impossible they still don't appear to have a coherent idea of what they want after the war. Even if it was unrealistic, it would at least form the basis of a plan, how best to aid Ukraine and what to negotiate.
selivanovp 1y ago
[flagged]
- watwut 1y ago
  Stop lying. Russia invaded, because they wanted to steal territory and invade.
  - selivanovp 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - throw310822 1y ago
    Why would Russia, the largest country in the world, scarcely populated, try to steal more territory? I understand that Ukraine's territory is more valuable than the equivalent parts of Siberia, but still, is it that important? Isn't it more obvious that Russia considers Ukraine part of its own backyard and doesn't want an aggressive, confrontational superpower to attract it in its sphere of influence?
    - computerthings 1y ago
      [dead]
  - sam_lowry_ 1y ago
    At least once, @selivanovp is right here. Russia invaded because it could, and because the existing political system needed a war to consolidate power and justify oppression. The alternative was internal political tensions, weakening economy, and eventually an end to Putin's rule. Don't forget that he is 72 and senile or, as Trump put it, "absolutely crazy".
  - ponector 1y ago
    There is no point to argue with russians here. They perfectly know they are lying. They are fine with whatever atrocities have been done by russian people.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> Not much we can do, it's coming and it's all there for anyone to see if they are looking Whether it’s a direct confrontation of superpowers is absolutely still in the air. This can be constrained to proxies. (And from there, avoiding a proxy contest going nuclear. Non-proxy conflicts like Israel-Iran and India-Pakistan are out of our control on the nuclear front.) > West is going to wish it had done more to help Ukraine, there was a window of opportunity that may have prevented what we're going to be in for Yes. Unfortunately it seems that the temptation of appeasement isn’t a lesson learned long.

disambiguation 1y ago

Its always the new accounts pushing the weirdest narratives.

throw310822 1y ago

The meaning I get from your comment is: "We're unwillingly and blindly stepping into a war, we should have done more war!" Maybe we should have done less war and less talking about war, don't you think? Talked more with Russia (let alone not provoke it into a confrontation for an entire decade- ask Victoria "fuck the EU" Nuland), built up clear and safe and agreed boundaries, etc.

kergonath 1y ago
> Maybe we should have done less war and less talking about war, don't you think? Who is “we”? > Talked more with Russia (let alone not provoke it into a confrontation for an entire decade- ask Victoria "fuck the EU" Nuland), built up clear and safe and agreed boundaries, etc. You realise that there were talks with Russia, including on “clear and safe and agreed boundaries”, right? Russia was a guarantor in the Minsk and Budapest memoranda. As for your point in the middle, it really is strange that smaller countries want to escape Russia’s sphere of influence, considering what they do to their neighbours in Moldova and Georgia, to name but two examples. Never mind Chechnya and now, of course, Ukraine. Russia’s behaviour is the main driving force towards NATO and the EU in Eastern Europe. You are repeating bullshit propaganda.
- throw310822 1y ago
  Can you explain this? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
  - yetihehe 1y ago
    > The clear purpose in leaking this conversation is to embarrass Washington and for audiences susceptible to Moscow's message to portray the US as interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs. THE whole argument of this one and similar "leaks" is "interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs". Ukrainians see it a little differently: "helping Ukraine escape Russia". But Russia sees it as "helping Ukraine escape Russia, thus interfering in Russia's domestic affairs". When Russians say that someone is "interfering in Ukraine's domestic affairs" they mean that Ukraine is Russian and should not be touched by anyone other than Russia.
    - throw310822 1y ago
      Yes, interesting introduction since the entire article is about the proof of US meddling in Ukraine's internal affairs. Also the article: > The US says that it is working with all sides in the crisis to reach a peaceful solution, noting that "ultimately it is up to the Ukrainian people to decide their future". However this transcript suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals > Various officials attempting to marshal the Ukrainian opposition [...] US Vice-President Joe Biden clearly being lined up to give private words of encouragement at the appropriate moment. > the US expresses frustration at the EU's efforts. Washington and Brussels have not been completely in step during the Ukraine crisis. The EU is divided and to some extent hesitant about picking a fight with Moscow. The year is 2014
      - yetihehe 1y ago
        You present every quote to look like Ukrainians didn't want to ally with west and that was ONLY because US manipulated them. I'm a Pole. I know EXACTLY why Ukrainians wanted to escape Russia's side. US wanted that too, so they made steps to make Ukrainian wishes true. How to spot Russian propaganda: They treat Ukrainians as Russians that didn't want to go to big bad west, but USA meddled and made them stray from one true Russian way, Ukrainians were only a tool with no agency whatsoever used against Russian peaceful ways.

jemmyw 1y ago

I don't see it. Russia is spent on their war with Ukraine. Whatever ambitions they had beyond that, those are fantastical now. I'm sure plenty of nations are studying the war there and seeing that it is expensive and difficult. And what do you even gain, a war torn country and a population willing to cause you a lot of trouble forever more? If Russia had instead invested their war spending into the economy they would be up far more than they're down. I agree though, that the west should have done far more to help Ukraine.

tharmas 1y ago
The plan certainly was to create another Soviet-Afghanistan war in hopes to cut Russia "down to size". Geopolitics. Whether that works time will tell. What is certain however, is the number of the dead and the destruction of Ukraine.
- jemmyw 1y ago
  I don't think that was the plan at any point. That's just what happened. The politicians in the west wanted things to go back to how they were before the war and never wanted to give enough aid to jeopardize that. Though that has long been impossible they still don't appear to have a coherent idea of what they want after the war. Even if it was unrealistic, it would at least form the basis of a plan, how best to aid Ukraine and what to negotiate.

selivanovp 1y ago

[flagged]

watwut 1y ago
Stop lying. Russia invaded, because they wanted to steal territory and invade.
- selivanovp 1y ago
  [flagged]
- throw310822 1y ago
  Why would Russia, the largest country in the world, scarcely populated, try to steal more territory? I understand that Ukraine's territory is more valuable than the equivalent parts of Siberia, but still, is it that important? Isn't it more obvious that Russia considers Ukraine part of its own backyard and doesn't want an aggressive, confrontational superpower to attract it in its sphere of influence?
  - computerthings 1y ago
    [dead]
- sam_lowry_ 1y ago
  At least once, @selivanovp is right here. Russia invaded because it could, and because the existing political system needed a war to consolidate power and justify oppression. The alternative was internal political tensions, weakening economy, and eventually an end to Putin's rule. Don't forget that he is 72 and senile or, as Trump put it, "absolutely crazy".
- ponector 1y ago
  There is no point to argue with russians here. They perfectly know they are lying. They are fine with whatever atrocities have been done by russian people.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]