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As an avid Pokemon Showdown player, this caught my eye: > In the case of Pokémon Showdown, only bugs which stem from a misimplementation of specific effects ar

As an avid Pokemon Showdown player, this caught my eye: > In the case of Pokémon Showdown, only bugs which stem from a misimplementation of specific effects are reproduced in the engine, bugs which are the result of a misunderstanding of the fundamental mechanics of Pokémon or which simply arise due to specific Pokémon Showdown implementation details that aren't replicable without making the same (incorrect) architectural choices aren't. Very curious what "incorrect architecture choices" refers to but I assume the post-Dexit NatDex clusterfuck is a major part of it, lol. I do think "Assist can call any move it's not explicitly forbidden from calling, even moves that were never present in the same game as Assist" was the wrong choice, for example, and we saw how that played out with ReviveCats :P

TZubiri 1y ago
Unclear. A couple of bugs in gen 1 that might be implemented differently than PS, would be bugs that are fixed in ps due to balancing or due to playability: - multiplayer desyncs, see counter - fly/dig para invuln. - freeze clause, and to a lesser extent sleep clause Bugs like normal body slam para invuln, amnesia reapplying speed drops, and toxic counter bugs, 1/256 miss chance, focus energy bugs, I would expect to stay. If those get fixed, the project would veer into the terrain of natdex, Create A Pokemon, or Custom Metas, as in made up fan games that never existed in cartridge
- spondylosaurus 1y ago
  Yeah I was wondering about desyncs too, because that's a case where replicating "authentic" cartridge behavior doesn't really add any value from a player perspective. Invulnerability exploits are fun if you're the one taking advantage of them but it's obviously less fun to be on the receiving end, lol. ETA: Not directly related, but @ the creator of this tool: if you're planning to implement more gens, you'll be in for a fun time with Sheer Force interactions!
scheibo 1y ago
Pokémon Showdown was written to simulate interactions that occur in Generation V (which was modern at the time) based on the (very rough) understanding of mechanics that we had 15 years ago. Every other generation was then shoehorned to fit into this architecture (which isn't actually even correct for Generation V). While this kind of works for modern generations, Generations I and II were quite a bit simpler. e.g., what Pokémon Showdown deems as the "residual phase" does not exist in Generation I & II, and this results in an incorrect ordering of events compared to the cartridge implementations. https://github.com/pkmn/engine/blob/main/src/lib/gen1/README.md#unimplementable https://github.com/pkmn/engine/blob/main/src/lib/gen1/README... goes into detail about what Pokémon Showdown-specific behavior is currently unimplementable in Generation I (though binding moves like Wrap have actually been fixed on Pokémon Showdown and there's a branch that should update this section to account for that).
- TZubiri 1y ago
  Oh damn, as a deep gen 1 player, this was unknown to me. I now understand what startup clients feel when a startup is built exactly around them. ", Wrap does 0 damage against Ghost-type Pokémon instead of properly respecting immunity, " This was the only significant effect I could find, it would change dragonite and wrap. I think it would be a nerf, but it may be a buff. Wrap is also used as a kind of u turn, but it works both ways, currently you can use gengar to pivot vs wrap. I think this would nerf dragonite as he wants to pivot away from gengar, and buff arbok, as it would allow glare-EQ vs gengar, even if they have psychic. Not massive, but you never know what butterfly effects bugs like these can have, or even unknown interactions, we learned from the Body Slam 2015 revolution that for metagames so advanced small changes can have profound implications. Finally, while the project is cool, selectively patching the most key feature (which in competitive games and in Smogon is decided by prioritizing high elo votes) would make for an interesting concession

TZubiri 1y ago

Unclear. A couple of bugs in gen 1 that might be implemented differently than PS, would be bugs that are fixed in ps due to balancing or due to playability: - multiplayer desyncs, see counter - fly/dig para invuln. - freeze clause, and to a lesser extent sleep clause Bugs like normal body slam para invuln, amnesia reapplying speed drops, and toxic counter bugs, 1/256 miss chance, focus energy bugs, I would expect to stay. If those get fixed, the project would veer into the terrain of natdex, Create A Pokemon, or Custom Metas, as in made up fan games that never existed in cartridge

spondylosaurus 1y ago
Yeah I was wondering about desyncs too, because that's a case where replicating "authentic" cartridge behavior doesn't really add any value from a player perspective. Invulnerability exploits are fun if you're the one taking advantage of them but it's obviously less fun to be on the receiving end, lol. ETA: Not directly related, but @ the creator of this tool: if you're planning to implement more gens, you'll be in for a fun time with Sheer Force interactions!

scheibo 1y ago

Pokémon Showdown was written to simulate interactions that occur in Generation V (which was modern at the time) based on the (very rough) understanding of mechanics that we had 15 years ago. Every other generation was then shoehorned to fit into this architecture (which isn't actually even correct for Generation V). While this kind of works for modern generations, Generations I and II were quite a bit simpler. e.g., what Pokémon Showdown deems as the "residual phase" does not exist in Generation I & II, and this results in an incorrect ordering of events compared to the cartridge implementations. https://github.com/pkmn/engine/blob/main/src/lib/gen1/README.md#unimplementable https://github.com/pkmn/engine/blob/main/src/lib/gen1/README... goes into detail about what Pokémon Showdown-specific behavior is currently unimplementable in Generation I (though binding moves like Wrap have actually been fixed on Pokémon Showdown and there's a branch that should update this section to account for that).

TZubiri 1y ago
Oh damn, as a deep gen 1 player, this was unknown to me. I now understand what startup clients feel when a startup is built exactly around them. ", Wrap does 0 damage against Ghost-type Pokémon instead of properly respecting immunity, " This was the only significant effect I could find, it would change dragonite and wrap. I think it would be a nerf, but it may be a buff. Wrap is also used as a kind of u turn, but it works both ways, currently you can use gengar to pivot vs wrap. I think this would nerf dragonite as he wants to pivot away from gengar, and buff arbok, as it would allow glare-EQ vs gengar, even if they have psychic. Not massive, but you never know what butterfly effects bugs like these can have, or even unknown interactions, we learned from the Body Slam 2015 revolution that for metagames so advanced small changes can have profound implications. Finally, while the project is cool, selectively patching the most key feature (which in competitive games and in Smogon is decided by prioritizing high elo votes) would make for an interesting concession