3 ms·

It's not part of the main storyline of Luke's journey as an individual & the Jedi order but it is a very big part of one of the main storylines of a ragtag bunc

It's not part of the main storyline of Luke's journey as an individual & the Jedi order but it is a very big part of one of the main storylines of a ragtag bunch of rebels sticking it to the empire. A storyline which I'd argue was strongest in A New Hope & the initial trilogy & was weakened by the increased focus on individual storylines in the anakin & rey trilogies.

sho_hn 1y ago
I'd say this is giving the Anakin trilogy an unfair shake: While I don't enjoy watching the prequels much for being clumsy films, you have to hand it to Lucas for trying to significantly expand his space opera by adding in galactical politics, etc. Any thrust to make Star Wars about ideology and governance (and specifically parliamentary democracy vs. facism) really came from the prequels, and arguably you couldn't have Andor without their template just as much as A New Hope delivers the plot hooks for its premise. In retrospect, while its flowering may be Andor, it's the prequels that gave the franchise a bigger signature and message than just being a family drama. Taken together they now make Star Wars about something, which I think it never really had before. "What's that star war about?" is something you can answer now.
- toyg 1y ago
  Yes, the overall narrative of the prequels was good and very promising. It's so unfortunate that they turned out to simply be shockingly bad as movies - "clumsly" really doesn't describe how stodgy and badly put-together they were. I honestly hope Disney will eventually remake them from scratch, with the excuse that FX have progressed dramatically since then. They could even reuse McEwan, considering he's supposed to be an older character already.
- jimbokun 1y ago
  I don't think any of the politics from the prequel trilogy lands. It's too cartoony for that. Whereas Senator Mothma's story arc had me engrossed from beginning to end. From the complexities of a Senator's social life, to her financial difficulties, to the medieval like politics of marrying off her daughter for the sake of a political and financial alliance, to her risking more and more, to her brave and powerful speech condemning the empire. There is nothing in the prequels that hits nearly as hard. Because it's all dialog the audience isn't paying attention to because the Jedi stuff is more engaging, and because the political stakes never seem that great.
  - sho_hn 1y ago
    Sure, the execution was crappy - but he chose to make one of his new main characters a Senator, had the Senate as a set piece, etc.
    - alextingle 1y ago
      One of the original movie's main characters was a senator. It's hardly original.
      - cpburns2009 1y ago
        Leia's role as a member of the senate was in one scene in the original movie, and it was not clear if she was a senator or working on behalf of a senator. The senate being dissolved in another scene had just as little impact as her affiliation with the senate as far the movie itself goes.
- JohnBooty 1y ago
  you have to hand it to Lucas for trying to significantly expand his space opera by adding in galactical politics No, absolutely zero credit. While "evil guy corrupting a democracy" is certainly a noble and relevant thing to explore, the prequels don't explore that in any useful or fun or insightful way. It's literally just an excuse for pew pew pew lasers and spaceships and laser swords. (Remarkably, they also make the democracy, and the Jedi who defend it, seem almost universally super boring and dumb and uncool. Making Jedi uncool is some kind of special achievement...) Even as a real-world allegory, it sucks. The bad guys in real life aren't even remotely like the Sith, who are physically twisted freaks that are explicitly like "yep! we're evil!" Real-life bad guys are often good looking and most of them think they're actually doing the right thing.
- clayhacks 1y ago
  There is politics in the original trilogy. It’s just more thematic than literal political manoeuvring. The story of a rag tag group of rebels fighting against a massive entrenched empire is a political one by nature. And Lucas has directly stated his inspiration for that dynamic was the Vietnam war. And spoiler alert America isn’t the rebels. I think Andor does a great job of fleshing out the more day to day feelings of being in an era of rebellion against an empire bent on domination
  - fmajid 1y ago
    The Simpsons had it right when they parodied Episode 2 as a boring story about redistricting.
jimbokun 1y ago
Andor and Rogue One are better prequels than the prequel trilogy in that they better match the tone of the original Star Wars and do a better job filling in the parts of the back story viewers care about. How did the Rebellion start? How was it organized? What led to building the Death Star? How did they get the plans to give to Leia to give to Luke? The only part of the prequel trilogy relevant to the story in A New Hope is the final battle between Anakin and Obi Wan.
- JohnBooty 1y ago
  If the prequels taught me anything, it's that these questions are usually better left unanswered. What's cool about the Force isn't the mechanics of how it works. What's cool about the Force is that it's a mystical thing that's everywhere, binding all living things together. And we honestly don't need to know how the Rebellion started. It doesn't matter! They are the good guys, and they are messy but kind and loving and cool and they are rebelling against the cold and mean (but also sometimes cool) bad guys. In fact, the more dumb shit I know about them the less I can project myself onto them and see myself in their eyes. Because I have rebelled against mean authoritarian shit before, or at least dreamed of it, but I have never been involved with trade disputes or galactic senates or weird old religions. This is true IMO 99.99% of the time. Shockingly to me, Rogue One and Andor are so well done that they are exceptions to the rule.

sho_hn 1y ago

I'd say this is giving the Anakin trilogy an unfair shake: While I don't enjoy watching the prequels much for being clumsy films, you have to hand it to Lucas for trying to significantly expand his space opera by adding in galactical politics, etc. Any thrust to make Star Wars about ideology and governance (and specifically parliamentary democracy vs. facism) really came from the prequels, and arguably you couldn't have Andor without their template just as much as A New Hope delivers the plot hooks for its premise. In retrospect, while its flowering may be Andor, it's the prequels that gave the franchise a bigger signature and message than just being a family drama. Taken together they now make Star Wars about something, which I think it never really had before. "What's that star war about?" is something you can answer now.

toyg 1y ago
Yes, the overall narrative of the prequels was good and very promising. It's so unfortunate that they turned out to simply be shockingly bad as movies - "clumsly" really doesn't describe how stodgy and badly put-together they were. I honestly hope Disney will eventually remake them from scratch, with the excuse that FX have progressed dramatically since then. They could even reuse McEwan, considering he's supposed to be an older character already.
jimbokun 1y ago
I don't think any of the politics from the prequel trilogy lands. It's too cartoony for that. Whereas Senator Mothma's story arc had me engrossed from beginning to end. From the complexities of a Senator's social life, to her financial difficulties, to the medieval like politics of marrying off her daughter for the sake of a political and financial alliance, to her risking more and more, to her brave and powerful speech condemning the empire. There is nothing in the prequels that hits nearly as hard. Because it's all dialog the audience isn't paying attention to because the Jedi stuff is more engaging, and because the political stakes never seem that great.
- sho_hn 1y ago
  Sure, the execution was crappy - but he chose to make one of his new main characters a Senator, had the Senate as a set piece, etc.
  - alextingle 1y ago
    One of the original movie's main characters was a senator. It's hardly original.
    - cpburns2009 1y ago
      Leia's role as a member of the senate was in one scene in the original movie, and it was not clear if she was a senator or working on behalf of a senator. The senate being dissolved in another scene had just as little impact as her affiliation with the senate as far the movie itself goes.
JohnBooty 1y ago
you have to hand it to Lucas for trying to significantly expand his space opera by adding in galactical politics No, absolutely zero credit. While "evil guy corrupting a democracy" is certainly a noble and relevant thing to explore, the prequels don't explore that in any useful or fun or insightful way. It's literally just an excuse for pew pew pew lasers and spaceships and laser swords. (Remarkably, they also make the democracy, and the Jedi who defend it, seem almost universally super boring and dumb and uncool. Making Jedi uncool is some kind of special achievement...) Even as a real-world allegory, it sucks. The bad guys in real life aren't even remotely like the Sith, who are physically twisted freaks that are explicitly like "yep! we're evil!" Real-life bad guys are often good looking and most of them think they're actually doing the right thing.
clayhacks 1y ago
There is politics in the original trilogy. It’s just more thematic than literal political manoeuvring. The story of a rag tag group of rebels fighting against a massive entrenched empire is a political one by nature. And Lucas has directly stated his inspiration for that dynamic was the Vietnam war. And spoiler alert America isn’t the rebels. I think Andor does a great job of fleshing out the more day to day feelings of being in an era of rebellion against an empire bent on domination
- fmajid 1y ago
  The Simpsons had it right when they parodied Episode 2 as a boring story about redistricting.

jimbokun 1y ago

Andor and Rogue One are better prequels than the prequel trilogy in that they better match the tone of the original Star Wars and do a better job filling in the parts of the back story viewers care about. How did the Rebellion start? How was it organized? What led to building the Death Star? How did they get the plans to give to Leia to give to Luke? The only part of the prequel trilogy relevant to the story in A New Hope is the final battle between Anakin and Obi Wan.

JohnBooty 1y ago
If the prequels taught me anything, it's that these questions are usually better left unanswered. What's cool about the Force isn't the mechanics of how it works. What's cool about the Force is that it's a mystical thing that's everywhere, binding all living things together. And we honestly don't need to know how the Rebellion started. It doesn't matter! They are the good guys, and they are messy but kind and loving and cool and they are rebelling against the cold and mean (but also sometimes cool) bad guys. In fact, the more dumb shit I know about them the less I can project myself onto them and see myself in their eyes. Because I have rebelled against mean authoritarian shit before, or at least dreamed of it, but I have never been involved with trade disputes or galactic senates or weird old religions. This is true IMO 99.99% of the time. Shockingly to me, Rogue One and Andor are so well done that they are exceptions to the rule.