3 ms·

I think Andor is a bit over hyped in this threat. I absolutely love it (especially the Imperial side of things) but saying it is better than the original movies

by kriro 1y ago

I think Andor is a bit over hyped in this threat. I absolutely love it (especially the Imperial side of things) but saying it is better than the original movies is a bit too much. If you take into account the time and technical possibilities it's not even close. And the original movies have more memorable things overall. I mean the two villains alone are all time greats. The music is also better (imo). But most importantly, I think Andor is less strong without the original movies. The looming threat and the Mothma high-society scenes become a lot less powerful. Same for the insights into the Imperial machine. And even the meaning of the Rebellion itself. I'd argue while technically great, well written etc. without the SW backdrop the storytelling suffers quite a bit.

meowface 1y ago
I think with nostalgia goggles and appreciation for what it was at the time, the originals are great, but in retrospect I don't think the original movies are that great. The story is very compelling and fun but across basically all other dimensions Andor is just higher-quality.
Joeboy 1y ago
Andor is a very good TV show, but it's obviously getting extra appreciation because it's part of a beloved but increasingly exhausted franchise.
- belval 1y ago
  It's the opposite for me. I could not be more burnt out on StarWars, when they introduced the force in season 2 I rolled my eyes and it somewhat took me out of it. The main downside of watching Andor is that you have your brain nagging you about eposide 7 making everything that you are watching pointless (the new republic is obliterated after 20-30 years). I have friends that I can't convince to watch it because they are just too done with that universe in general. But that's the thing, Andor could be outside of StarWars and just its own thing because the world building that it does on its own is excellent, the premise (empire vs rebellion/revolutionaries) is mostly intemporal.
  - lupire 1y ago
    Someone who appreciates Andor should find it easy to forget Ep7 entirely or understand that it was just a reboot remake alternate history, not "canon". The Force part was hamfisted. It was clear that they were trying to avoid "midochlorians" but didn't know how it handle it, and didn't spend any time to develop it organically. It felt more like highbrow fanservice connecting Cassian to Luke. It's similar to the Kleya hospital/flashback episode, which could well have been its own 3 episode arc and gotten time to breathe like the S1 prison arc. Since they cut the project down to be 4 3-episode mini seasons after S1, instead of 6+ episodes each, they rushed some story arcs and sublots that end up just being presented as bullet points.
  - kriro 1y ago
    And this is exactly where I disagree. Andor does not stand very well on its own outside of SW (and that takes it from great tier to very good for me with the other minor squibbles that I have). If you don't know the lore, things will be less clear and the writing will feel strange at times. FWIW, I have recommended this show to many friends who never watched anything SW, they mostly liked it but found some things odd. WARNING, SPOILERS The story is not properly resolved. If you have no SW knowledge, the threat isn't even very clear. Some galaxy government lead by an emperor is building a weapon, shown once. If S2 is the end it's pretty unsatisfying in general. The politics are kind of unclear. The sacrifice of Mothma is very unclear without a SW background. A senator said something and had to flee to a planet (oversimplified). Without knowledge of R1, the killing machine super droid is down right comical/a sloppy resolve for things. Without SW knowledge the (imo) best part of the Imperial machinery, bureaucracy, power hunger also becomes awkward at times and frankly less interesting. Syril is my favorite character and Dedra probably second. I found their arcs great, every single non-SW viewer I talked to found them "boring", "that guy with the annoying mother was strange" and "why did they have to be a couple, that's pretty unimaginative writing" etc. END SPOILERS My personal quibbles are that the crashed tie episode was pretty bad filler. I have not heard anyone say anything good about it. Someone else already mentioned minor technical problems (field scene). I found Diego Luna's acting ok but not great. It felt wooden at times. To some extend that's subjective but it doesn't compare to the lead acting I have in my personal top tier (Breaking Bad for example)
jccalhoun 1y ago
I don't get what people love about Andor. The prison break episode was good but the flashbacks to the kids in the jungle were horrible and the funeral with instruments straight out of Fat Albert's junkyard band were laughable.
- Arkhaine_kupo 1y ago
  Things to love about andor. 1) the themes it explores. Things like fighting fascism has been done to death by this point, half of YA is "goverment military and bad, young girl gets a love triangle and defats them". Andor shows the slowing, encroching effect of military rule. What a prision industrial complex looks like (from fake incarcerations to unescapable sentences). What colonialism looks like (bleak pragmatic bureocracy about mineral extraction while discussing genocide over hors d'oeuvres). How political silencing happens (mothma cannot find allies because they all understand they have very limited political capital and have to be very careful were they spend it). Those are serious topics, and you basically do not see them outside of shows which care on systems like Wire on the drug police system, or House of card with the political congress system. Certainly not on star wars 2) Cinematography. The show is shot like a spy thriller from the get go. It makes sense with Gilroy previous Bourne experience but for a disney property opening up with killing 2 cops outside a brothel sets a tone not seen previously. Thats carried with every arc having instantly recognisable look and feel, from the cold harsh lights of Narkina 5, to the warm beach vibes of Niamos (space miami), the future vibe of corusant or the jungle vibe of Yanvin 4. 3) Monologues. Most shows cant pull off one monologue without it looking awful, this show manages plenty of them, sometimes in the same episode. 4) The topics its willing to address. I mentioned themes before, but those themes can be explored in many ways. Prequels dealt with growing fascism in the republic then turned empire, but it wouldnt say genocide or have a isb officer talk about how annoying it is the army wants their interrogation techniques because their torture works so well. Or show insignificant middle managers so untouchable they attempt to rap* a main character. Saying the empire is very powerful and scary is one thing, showing how they behave with that power is way more chilling. 5) The carnival of interesting people explored. Most shows have a few main characters and then supporting characters whose mission is to not have a personality and be a plot device of some kind. Here outside of the incredible inner life of even minor characters you get to see the journey of peopel as varied as Andor, a colonial genocide survivor who was a petty thief and became a high ranking member of the rebellion. Luthen, an ex empire soldier who after crumbling on a mission rescues Kleya and becomes one of the leaders of the rebellion from within Corusant, sort of batman/bruce wayne. Vel, a nepo baby from Chandrilla who joins the rebellion. Syril, a dadless little shit who is obssesed with following the rules thinking he would get far inside the empire system. Dedra, an orphan that cares so much about results she might be actually responsible for the fall of the empire. Kleya, another genocide survivor, taken in by Luthen and basically nightwing to his batman. Like whether you like womanly women, or tomboy super killers and whether you like manly rebels who dont follow the rules to super organised overachiever you can find a character with an entire arc in andor for you. I could keep going but honestly its just a great show. From ideas like making 3 episode arcs, to how well it ties into Rogue one I think there is so much to praise there

by kriro 1y ago

meowface 1y ago

I think with nostalgia goggles and appreciation for what it was at the time, the originals are great, but in retrospect I don't think the original movies are that great. The story is very compelling and fun but across basically all other dimensions Andor is just higher-quality.

Joeboy 1y ago

Andor is a very good TV show, but it's obviously getting extra appreciation because it's part of a beloved but increasingly exhausted franchise.

belval 1y ago
It's the opposite for me. I could not be more burnt out on StarWars, when they introduced the force in season 2 I rolled my eyes and it somewhat took me out of it. The main downside of watching Andor is that you have your brain nagging you about eposide 7 making everything that you are watching pointless (the new republic is obliterated after 20-30 years). I have friends that I can't convince to watch it because they are just too done with that universe in general. But that's the thing, Andor could be outside of StarWars and just its own thing because the world building that it does on its own is excellent, the premise (empire vs rebellion/revolutionaries) is mostly intemporal.
- lupire 1y ago
  Someone who appreciates Andor should find it easy to forget Ep7 entirely or understand that it was just a reboot remake alternate history, not "canon". The Force part was hamfisted. It was clear that they were trying to avoid "midochlorians" but didn't know how it handle it, and didn't spend any time to develop it organically. It felt more like highbrow fanservice connecting Cassian to Luke. It's similar to the Kleya hospital/flashback episode, which could well have been its own 3 episode arc and gotten time to breathe like the S1 prison arc. Since they cut the project down to be 4 3-episode mini seasons after S1, instead of 6+ episodes each, they rushed some story arcs and sublots that end up just being presented as bullet points.
- kriro 1y ago
  And this is exactly where I disagree. Andor does not stand very well on its own outside of SW (and that takes it from great tier to very good for me with the other minor squibbles that I have). If you don't know the lore, things will be less clear and the writing will feel strange at times. FWIW, I have recommended this show to many friends who never watched anything SW, they mostly liked it but found some things odd. WARNING, SPOILERS The story is not properly resolved. If you have no SW knowledge, the threat isn't even very clear. Some galaxy government lead by an emperor is building a weapon, shown once. If S2 is the end it's pretty unsatisfying in general. The politics are kind of unclear. The sacrifice of Mothma is very unclear without a SW background. A senator said something and had to flee to a planet (oversimplified). Without knowledge of R1, the killing machine super droid is down right comical/a sloppy resolve for things. Without SW knowledge the (imo) best part of the Imperial machinery, bureaucracy, power hunger also becomes awkward at times and frankly less interesting. Syril is my favorite character and Dedra probably second. I found their arcs great, every single non-SW viewer I talked to found them "boring", "that guy with the annoying mother was strange" and "why did they have to be a couple, that's pretty unimaginative writing" etc. END SPOILERS My personal quibbles are that the crashed tie episode was pretty bad filler. I have not heard anyone say anything good about it. Someone else already mentioned minor technical problems (field scene). I found Diego Luna's acting ok but not great. It felt wooden at times. To some extend that's subjective but it doesn't compare to the lead acting I have in my personal top tier (Breaking Bad for example)

jccalhoun 1y ago

I don't get what people love about Andor. The prison break episode was good but the flashbacks to the kids in the jungle were horrible and the funeral with instruments straight out of Fat Albert's junkyard band were laughable.

Arkhaine_kupo 1y ago
Things to love about andor. 1) the themes it explores. Things like fighting fascism has been done to death by this point, half of YA is "goverment military and bad, young girl gets a love triangle and defats them". Andor shows the slowing, encroching effect of military rule. What a prision industrial complex looks like (from fake incarcerations to unescapable sentences). What colonialism looks like (bleak pragmatic bureocracy about mineral extraction while discussing genocide over hors d'oeuvres). How political silencing happens (mothma cannot find allies because they all understand they have very limited political capital and have to be very careful were they spend it). Those are serious topics, and you basically do not see them outside of shows which care on systems like Wire on the drug police system, or House of card with the political congress system. Certainly not on star wars 2) Cinematography. The show is shot like a spy thriller from the get go. It makes sense with Gilroy previous Bourne experience but for a disney property opening up with killing 2 cops outside a brothel sets a tone not seen previously. Thats carried with every arc having instantly recognisable look and feel, from the cold harsh lights of Narkina 5, to the warm beach vibes of Niamos (space miami), the future vibe of corusant or the jungle vibe of Yanvin 4. 3) Monologues. Most shows cant pull off one monologue without it looking awful, this show manages plenty of them, sometimes in the same episode. 4) The topics its willing to address. I mentioned themes before, but those themes can be explored in many ways. Prequels dealt with growing fascism in the republic then turned empire, but it wouldnt say genocide or have a isb officer talk about how annoying it is the army wants their interrogation techniques because their torture works so well. Or show insignificant middle managers so untouchable they attempt to rap* a main character. Saying the empire is very powerful and scary is one thing, showing how they behave with that power is way more chilling. 5) The carnival of interesting people explored. Most shows have a few main characters and then supporting characters whose mission is to not have a personality and be a plot device of some kind. Here outside of the incredible inner life of even minor characters you get to see the journey of peopel as varied as Andor, a colonial genocide survivor who was a petty thief and became a high ranking member of the rebellion. Luthen, an ex empire soldier who after crumbling on a mission rescues Kleya and becomes one of the leaders of the rebellion from within Corusant, sort of batman/bruce wayne. Vel, a nepo baby from Chandrilla who joins the rebellion. Syril, a dadless little shit who is obssesed with following the rules thinking he would get far inside the empire system. Dedra, an orphan that cares so much about results she might be actually responsible for the fall of the empire. Kleya, another genocide survivor, taken in by Luthen and basically nightwing to his batman. Like whether you like womanly women, or tomboy super killers and whether you like manly rebels who dont follow the rules to super organised overachiever you can find a character with an entire arc in andor for you. I could keep going but honestly its just a great show. From ideas like making 3 episode arcs, to how well it ties into Rogue one I think there is so much to praise there