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I’m all for critiques of capitalism, but it’s extremely unconvincing to say capitalism must go, but at the same time, you don’t know what to replace it with. H

I’m all for critiques of capitalism, but it’s extremely unconvincing to say capitalism must go, but at the same time, you don’t know what to replace it with. How are you so convinced that there is a better solution than capitalism if you can’t even articulate what that solution would be? How do you know that capitalism, for all it’s flaws, is not still the least-worst among an array of bad options?

phendrenad2 1y ago
This is usually the extent of online discussion. Everyone can agree that "just build more housing" is the answer to the homelessness epidemic, but nobody has anything to say about HOW to accomplish that. The person saying it can't build a house on their own, nor can the collective number of people who regularly eject that sentiment. So the question is "how do you get enough money in one place and apply it to building more housing". And that's the tricky part. Because as you keep asking "how" you eventually arrive at thorny problems like "how do you ensure that the politician you elect who promises to build more housing... actually does it?"
- s1artibartfast 1y ago
  Lots of people are screaming at the top of their lungs about how to build more housing. Primarily through deregulation. Examples would be zoning codes, building codes, relaxed public comment and relaxed environmental impact assessments.
  - mystraline 1y ago
    Deregulation is how we got into the mess of housing! In fact, its the complete financial ideation of rentals and homes. That's what's even pushed 2 earner homes to even afford a house. But those who have, can get a house loan, rent it out for 150% of the total mortgage and paracitize off the public. And nobody is the better, except for the paracite class (landlords). Rent controls would also do a great deal. But we hear howls from the libertarian types over controls ala Adam Smith. And progressive heavy taxation on more than 3 houses would also help the situation of houses being bought for rental or AirBNB purposes. Again, those are parasites on all of us. Of course, all these mean housing number go down. And those who own a large stake will definitely complain. But these are steps that would help, alongside building more with a rent-controlled and reasonable cost. And reforming how banks are required to provide loans (proof of X rent = proof of covering x mortgage). But really? This country is going the opposite way of the common person, and has been for decades. Now, that strategy has been ramped up to extremes.
    - dragonwriter 1y ago
      > Deregulation is how we got into the mess of housing! No, its not, restrictive zoning preventing actually building housing is. Which is why the mess is most acute in places which have the most such restrictions, and least in places that have less of them, wven when they are similar across all the dimensions you suggest are the real issues. > Rent controls would also do a great deal. At further reducing supply of housing by discouraging development? Yes, they would do a great deal of that.
    - s1artibartfast 1y ago
      Rent control doesn't build more homes. Neither does forcing banks to take on high risk borrowers. Are you confusing home ownership vs renting with total housing supply?
  - phendrenad2 1y ago
    Oh I agree, but how do we get those done? Seems like all attempts have failed, because people keep voting against it.
- marcosdumay 1y ago
  Just to point that most places with a "housing problem" actually have a transit problem that will get even worse if one goes naively building more housing in single-use or empty land.
int_19h 1y ago
For starters, we have to acknowledge that capitalism isn't really a system as such. It's a set of ad hoc economic arrangements that each came into being as a result of historic evolution in many different societies, not some kind of coherent arrangement with any specific goal. If you were to have the same discussion 400 years ago, proponents of then-existing economic relationships would say, "how are you so convinced that there's a better solution than what we have right now if you can't even articulate what the replacement would be?".

phendrenad2 1y ago

This is usually the extent of online discussion. Everyone can agree that "just build more housing" is the answer to the homelessness epidemic, but nobody has anything to say about HOW to accomplish that. The person saying it can't build a house on their own, nor can the collective number of people who regularly eject that sentiment. So the question is "how do you get enough money in one place and apply it to building more housing". And that's the tricky part. Because as you keep asking "how" you eventually arrive at thorny problems like "how do you ensure that the politician you elect who promises to build more housing... actually does it?"

s1artibartfast 1y ago
Lots of people are screaming at the top of their lungs about how to build more housing. Primarily through deregulation. Examples would be zoning codes, building codes, relaxed public comment and relaxed environmental impact assessments.
- mystraline 1y ago
  Deregulation is how we got into the mess of housing! In fact, its the complete financial ideation of rentals and homes. That's what's even pushed 2 earner homes to even afford a house. But those who have, can get a house loan, rent it out for 150% of the total mortgage and paracitize off the public. And nobody is the better, except for the paracite class (landlords). Rent controls would also do a great deal. But we hear howls from the libertarian types over controls ala Adam Smith. And progressive heavy taxation on more than 3 houses would also help the situation of houses being bought for rental or AirBNB purposes. Again, those are parasites on all of us. Of course, all these mean housing number go down. And those who own a large stake will definitely complain. But these are steps that would help, alongside building more with a rent-controlled and reasonable cost. And reforming how banks are required to provide loans (proof of X rent = proof of covering x mortgage). But really? This country is going the opposite way of the common person, and has been for decades. Now, that strategy has been ramped up to extremes.
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    > Deregulation is how we got into the mess of housing! No, its not, restrictive zoning preventing actually building housing is. Which is why the mess is most acute in places which have the most such restrictions, and least in places that have less of them, wven when they are similar across all the dimensions you suggest are the real issues. > Rent controls would also do a great deal. At further reducing supply of housing by discouraging development? Yes, they would do a great deal of that.
  - s1artibartfast 1y ago
    Rent control doesn't build more homes. Neither does forcing banks to take on high risk borrowers. Are you confusing home ownership vs renting with total housing supply?
- phendrenad2 1y ago
  Oh I agree, but how do we get those done? Seems like all attempts have failed, because people keep voting against it.
marcosdumay 1y ago
Just to point that most places with a "housing problem" actually have a transit problem that will get even worse if one goes naively building more housing in single-use or empty land.

int_19h 1y ago

For starters, we have to acknowledge that capitalism isn't really a system as such. It's a set of ad hoc economic arrangements that each came into being as a result of historic evolution in many different societies, not some kind of coherent arrangement with any specific goal. If you were to have the same discussion 400 years ago, proponents of then-existing economic relationships would say, "how are you so convinced that there's a better solution than what we have right now if you can't even articulate what the replacement would be?".