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Your demands of an absolute committment to maintaining the domestic establishment's war narrative while making a technical point have been noted. Slava Ukraini.

• sham1 1y ago
  Truth is the best narrative, and it's better than – perhaps unconsciously – downplaying the culpability of the Russian Federation for the war. Heroyam Slava.
  • pydry 1y ago
    It's curious how the "true narrative" people fight with such a passion for so frequently coincides with the dominant war narrative currently pushed by the imperial power center they live under. That is, until 10 years later when they have a new narrative about a different military rival. They quietly stop pushing the old narrative and everyone quietly admits the old one was kinda bullshit all along. E.g. my views didnt change one iota since 2003 but these views at some point magically stopped conferring a "Saddam sympathizer" moniker from people who demanded unthinking ideological commitment. It works the same way with people who live under and unthinkingly consume Russian imperialist propaganda too. The more passionate ones make routine demands for ideological purity similar to the one above.
    • N7lo4nl34akaoSN 1y ago
      How would you characterize the conflict?
      • pydry 1y ago
        Proxy war between two rival imperial power centers dueling for influence over a strategic chunk of land and sea.
        • N7lo4nl34akaoSN 1y ago
          so "war with Russia" becomes "US proxy war with Russia over Ukraine" - fair enough
        • mopsi 1y ago
          From earlier: That is, until 10 years later when they have a new narrative about a different military rival. They quietly stop pushing the old narrative and everyone quietly admits the old one was kinda bullshit all along. /---/ It works the same way with people who live under and unthinkingly consume Russian imperialist propaganda too. It certainly does. The Russian war against Ukraine began with unmarked soldiers, nicknamed "little green men," and Russia denying any involvement, claiming instead that Ukraine was in the midst of a civil war. When the latest Russian weapons appeared in Ukraine, Russia claimed that tourists must've bought them from military surplus stores. Then we went through a lot of bullshit - that Ukrainian nationalists were committing genocide in Donbas, or that Ukraine was secretly developing nuclear and biological weapons. Now, 10 years later, the narrative has shifted to how this has always been a major confrontation with the USA and NATO, a "proxy war". No doubt, it will shift many more times. Looking forward to when the current "supreme commander" Putin will be regarded as a failure, much like Gorbachev, and blamed for causing the difficult 2030s.
          • pydry 1y ago
            It began with a false flag terrorist attack on civilians in Maidan square which was used to usurp a democratically elected president who was extremely popular in the east and south. Nobody has ever been jailed for this terrorist attack and all the evidence points to Ukrainian fascists being culpable, including: * The Berkut who were there being tried and the trial falling through because all of them were too obviously very far away from the protestor-controlled hotel where the snipers nest was set up. * A Ukrainian war hero who had no reason to lie who was there telling people who was responsible (before being thrown in jail). * A group of the snipers (mercenaries who were there who never got paid) went public. It was as much a proxy war back then, it was just fought under the surface with NGO agitators instead of weapons deliveries.
    • dcow 1y ago
      What annoys me is that war is war. Of course there’s an aggressor and defender that’s how war works. A bunch of people die. War happens because there is no peaceful answer to, “who is right”. There is no global true narrative. Does it really matter which side is justified? No. The side that wins writes history. But that doesn’t stop a bunch of people so far removed from the war it will never affect them even one tiny bit from burning cycles arguing about which narrative is the nice “true” one. Likely so they can feel good and comfy and morally superior when they close their eyes at night.
• SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
  Who, precisely, do you consider to be the domestic establishment? Neither the President of the United States nor his Secretary of Defense subscribe to this narrative.
  • pydry 1y ago
    The deep state, most European leaders + states plus a huge chunk of Congress. Also even some of Trump's team. The establishment doesnt suddenly get swapped out because a new President gets in (even if the tides are shifting).