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It's simply the old Capital vs Labor struggle. CEOs and VCs all sing in the same choir, and for the past 3 years the tune is "be leaner". p.s.: I'm a big fan o

It's simply the old Capital vs Labor struggle. CEOs and VCs all sing in the same choir, and for the past 3 years the tune is "be leaner". p.s.: I'm a big fan of yours on Twitter.

godelski 1y ago
> the tune is "be leaner". Seems like they're happy to start cutting limbs to lose weight. It's hard to keep cutting fat if you've been aggressively cutting fat for so long. If the last CEO did their job there shouldn't be much fat left
- leflambeur 1y ago
  yet this will continue until it grounds to a halt. It's amazing and cringy the level of parroting performed by executives. Independent thought is very rare amongst business "leaders".
  - godelski 1y ago
    Let's make the laptops thinner. This way we can clean the oil off of the keyboard, putting it on the screen. At this point I'm not sure it's lack of independent thought so much as lack of thought. I'm even beginning to question if people even use the products they work on. Shouldn't there be more pressure from engineers at this point? Is it yes men from top to bottom? Even CEOs seem to be yes men in response to share holders but that's like being a yes man to the wind. When I bring this stuff up I'm called negative, a perfectionist, or told I'm out of touch with customers and or understand "value". Idk, maybe they're right. But I'm an engineer. My job is to find problems and fix them. I'm not negative, I'm trying to make the product better. And they're right, I don't understand value. I'm an engineer, it's not my job to make up a number about how valuable some bug fix is or isn't. What is this, "Whose Line Is It Anyways?" If you want made up dollar values go ask the business monkeys, I'm a code monkey
    - andsoitis 1y ago
      > I'm an engineer, it's not my job to make up a number about how valuable some bug fix is or isn't. So you think all bugs are equally important to fix?
      - godelski 1y ago
        No, of course not. That would be laughably absurd. So do you think I'm trolling or you're misunderstanding? Because who isn't familiar with triage? Do you think every bug's monetary value is perfectly aligned with user impact? Certainly that isn't true. If it were we'd be much better at security and would be more concerned with data privacy. There's no perfect metric for anything, and it would similarly be naïve to think you could place a dollar value on everything, let alone accurately. That's what I'm talking about. My main concern as an engineer is making the best product I can. The main concern of the manager is to make the best business. Don't get confused and think those are the same things. Hopefully they align, but they don't always.
- chii 1y ago
  > If the last CEO did their job there shouldn't be much fat left funny how that fat analogy works...because the head (brain) has a lot more fat content than muscles/limbs.
  - godelski 1y ago
    I never thought to extend the analogy like that, but I like it. It's showing. I mean look how people think my comments imply I don't know what triage is. Not knowing that would be counter to everything I'm saying, which is that a lot of these value numbers are poor guestimates at best. Happens every time I bring this up. It's absurd to think we could measure everything in terms of money. Even economists will tell you that's silly
saubeidl 1y ago
Except Labor in Tech is unique in that it has zero class consciousness and often actively roots for their exploiters. If we were to unionize, we could force this machine to a halt and shift the balance of power back in our favor. But we don't, because many of us have been brainwashed to believe we're on the same side as the ones trying to squeeze us.
- GoblinSlayer 1y ago
  >If we were to unionize Last time it was tried the union coerced everyone to root for their exploiters. People that unionize aren't magically different.
  - le-mark 1y ago
    What “last time” are you referring to specifically?
    - salawat 1y ago
      I am also curious.
- wnc3141 1y ago
  I think the issue at play here is the quickly changing job descriptions, RSU's and the higher paid bunch benefiting from very unequal pay across a job category.

It's simply the old Capital vs Labor struggle. CEOs and VCs all sing in the same choir, and for the past 3 years the tune is "be leaner". p.s.: I'm a big fan of yours on Twitter.

godelski 1y ago

> the tune is "be leaner". Seems like they're happy to start cutting limbs to lose weight. It's hard to keep cutting fat if you've been aggressively cutting fat for so long. If the last CEO did their job there shouldn't be much fat left

leflambeur 1y ago
yet this will continue until it grounds to a halt. It's amazing and cringy the level of parroting performed by executives. Independent thought is very rare amongst business "leaders".
- godelski 1y ago
  Let's make the laptops thinner. This way we can clean the oil off of the keyboard, putting it on the screen. At this point I'm not sure it's lack of independent thought so much as lack of thought. I'm even beginning to question if people even use the products they work on. Shouldn't there be more pressure from engineers at this point? Is it yes men from top to bottom? Even CEOs seem to be yes men in response to share holders but that's like being a yes man to the wind. When I bring this stuff up I'm called negative, a perfectionist, or told I'm out of touch with customers and or understand "value". Idk, maybe they're right. But I'm an engineer. My job is to find problems and fix them. I'm not negative, I'm trying to make the product better. And they're right, I don't understand value. I'm an engineer, it's not my job to make up a number about how valuable some bug fix is or isn't. What is this, "Whose Line Is It Anyways?" If you want made up dollar values go ask the business monkeys, I'm a code monkey
  - andsoitis 1y ago
    > I'm an engineer, it's not my job to make up a number about how valuable some bug fix is or isn't. So you think all bugs are equally important to fix?
    - godelski 1y ago
      No, of course not. That would be laughably absurd. So do you think I'm trolling or you're misunderstanding? Because who isn't familiar with triage? Do you think every bug's monetary value is perfectly aligned with user impact? Certainly that isn't true. If it were we'd be much better at security and would be more concerned with data privacy. There's no perfect metric for anything, and it would similarly be naïve to think you could place a dollar value on everything, let alone accurately. That's what I'm talking about. My main concern as an engineer is making the best product I can. The main concern of the manager is to make the best business. Don't get confused and think those are the same things. Hopefully they align, but they don't always.
chii 1y ago
> If the last CEO did their job there shouldn't be much fat left funny how that fat analogy works...because the head (brain) has a lot more fat content than muscles/limbs.
- godelski 1y ago
  I never thought to extend the analogy like that, but I like it. It's showing. I mean look how people think my comments imply I don't know what triage is. Not knowing that would be counter to everything I'm saying, which is that a lot of these value numbers are poor guestimates at best. Happens every time I bring this up. It's absurd to think we could measure everything in terms of money. Even economists will tell you that's silly

saubeidl 1y ago

Except Labor in Tech is unique in that it has zero class consciousness and often actively roots for their exploiters. If we were to unionize, we could force this machine to a halt and shift the balance of power back in our favor. But we don't, because many of us have been brainwashed to believe we're on the same side as the ones trying to squeeze us.

GoblinSlayer 1y ago
>If we were to unionize Last time it was tried the union coerced everyone to root for their exploiters. People that unionize aren't magically different.
- le-mark 1y ago
  What “last time” are you referring to specifically?
  - salawat 1y ago
    I am also curious.
wnc3141 1y ago
I think the issue at play here is the quickly changing job descriptions, RSU's and the higher paid bunch benefiting from very unequal pay across a job category.