4 ms·

I am by no means a C++ expert, a noob rather. It might be possible to make this generic, but it seems quite easy to forget a small detail here, and then be knee

by kjuulh 1y ago

I am by no means a C++ expert, a noob rather. It might be possible to make this generic, but it seems quite easy to forget a small detail here, and then be kneecapped because you forgot one of the overloads. So that in very few amount of edge cases your abstraction isn't actually cleaned up. Better than nothing, and might be the most preferred way of doing things in C++, but it does seem dangerous to me. ;)

znkr 1y ago
I used to program a lot in C++ but switched to a number of different programming languages since then. Everything in C++ is this way and it’s hard to understand that things don’t have to be this way when you’re in the trenches of C++.
- jiggawatts 1y ago
  I distinctly remember what a breath of fresh air it was to switch to Java and then later C# where in both languages an "int" is the only 32-bit signed integer type, instead of hundreds of redefinitions for each library like ZLIB_INT32 or whatever.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Now you can enjoy native ints on C#, as they improved C# for low level coding tasks.
    - jiggawatts 1y ago
      "Native" types like usize and isize as used in Rust I'm totally fine with. What I got frustrated with in C/C++ is the insanity of each and every third-party library redefining every type. I understand the history and reasoning behind this, but it's one of those things that ought to have been fixed in the early 2000s, not decades later when it's too late.
      - orwin 1y ago
        I think by C++17 (14 even), it was in a very good state and since then, third party libraries are better and better. So really, a decade and a half later than you think it should have been.
bluGill 1y ago
It is possible, but it isn't hard to remember the rules. The scope of where you can mess up is isolated to the single class so it is generally possible to get this right. Manual memory management is easy when the new and delete are near each other, but you often need them far removed. RAII ensures the places you can mess up are close. A static analisys tool can enforce the rule as well- you should have one. unfortunately though this is one area that because c++ predates RAII it can't changethe defaults without breaking a lot of code. I am saying the problem is manageable - there is a real problem though. If you make a new language learn from this mistake.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  How can C++ predate the idea it helped to make mainstream regarding resource usage on the 1990's?
  - bluGill 1y ago
    RAII was something that C++ incidentally made possible. Nobody realized the power until after C++ existed. It was more of a "look at the cool thing we can do" when C++ was invented, only after did people realize just how great/powerful it is.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      So C++ made the idea possible, it did not predated it. The Design and Evolution of C++ is quite clear on how this process came to be, during C++ design as language.
      - bluGill 1y ago
        kind of both as I understand it. Destructors was something C++ was going for, but the full power doesn't seem to be something that was really understood for a long time after they existed. At least not in C++ as I remember it in those days. Maybe Bjarne has a better vision that my professors didn't share though.
green7ea 1y ago
C++ is a difficult language to use well but it becomes a lot easier when you turn on the 'correct' warnings. Turning on the `-Wdeprecated-copy-dtor` warning would help you not forget one of the cases in the rule of 3. I would have loved it if this warning was on by default but sadly, you have to know to turn it on.
- 90s_dev 1y ago
  Are are all the ideal warnings?
  - green7ea 1y ago
    As far as I know, many experienced C++ programmers have a list of warnings they use for their projects and it varies by industry since different compilers will have different flags. When I was working on bigger C++ projects, one of the senior programmers would configure the warnings for everyone. An easy start is to use `-Wall -Wextra -Wpedantic` for gcc and clang compilers. I would now add `-Wdeprecated-copy-dtor` to the list but I only learned about it writing this article.

by kjuulh 1y ago

znkr 1y ago

I used to program a lot in C++ but switched to a number of different programming languages since then. Everything in C++ is this way and it’s hard to understand that things don’t have to be this way when you’re in the trenches of C++.

jiggawatts 1y ago
I distinctly remember what a breath of fresh air it was to switch to Java and then later C# where in both languages an "int" is the only 32-bit signed integer type, instead of hundreds of redefinitions for each library like ZLIB_INT32 or whatever.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Now you can enjoy native ints on C#, as they improved C# for low level coding tasks.
  - jiggawatts 1y ago
    "Native" types like usize and isize as used in Rust I'm totally fine with. What I got frustrated with in C/C++ is the insanity of each and every third-party library redefining every type. I understand the history and reasoning behind this, but it's one of those things that ought to have been fixed in the early 2000s, not decades later when it's too late.
    - orwin 1y ago
      I think by C++17 (14 even), it was in a very good state and since then, third party libraries are better and better. So really, a decade and a half later than you think it should have been.

bluGill 1y ago

It is possible, but it isn't hard to remember the rules. The scope of where you can mess up is isolated to the single class so it is generally possible to get this right. Manual memory management is easy when the new and delete are near each other, but you often need them far removed. RAII ensures the places you can mess up are close. A static analisys tool can enforce the rule as well- you should have one. unfortunately though this is one area that because c++ predates RAII it can't changethe defaults without breaking a lot of code. I am saying the problem is manageable - there is a real problem though. If you make a new language learn from this mistake.

pjmlp 1y ago
How can C++ predate the idea it helped to make mainstream regarding resource usage on the 1990's?
- bluGill 1y ago
  RAII was something that C++ incidentally made possible. Nobody realized the power until after C++ existed. It was more of a "look at the cool thing we can do" when C++ was invented, only after did people realize just how great/powerful it is.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    So C++ made the idea possible, it did not predated it. The Design and Evolution of C++ is quite clear on how this process came to be, during C++ design as language.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      kind of both as I understand it. Destructors was something C++ was going for, but the full power doesn't seem to be something that was really understood for a long time after they existed. At least not in C++ as I remember it in those days. Maybe Bjarne has a better vision that my professors didn't share though.

green7ea 1y ago

C++ is a difficult language to use well but it becomes a lot easier when you turn on the 'correct' warnings. Turning on the `-Wdeprecated-copy-dtor` warning would help you not forget one of the cases in the rule of 3. I would have loved it if this warning was on by default but sadly, you have to know to turn it on.

90s_dev 1y ago
Are are all the ideal warnings?
- green7ea 1y ago
  As far as I know, many experienced C++ programmers have a list of warnings they use for their projects and it varies by industry since different compilers will have different flags. When I was working on bigger C++ projects, one of the senior programmers would configure the warnings for everyone. An easy start is to use `-Wall -Wextra -Wpedantic` for gcc and clang compilers. I would now add `-Wdeprecated-copy-dtor` to the list but I only learned about it writing this article.