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SQL Workbench – Republicans not welcome
- neilv 1y agohttps://www.sql-workbench.eu/manual/license.html#license-restrictions https://www.sql-workbench.eu/manual/license.html#license-res...
- energywut 1y agoPeople are allowed to choose who they associate with and who they vend stuff to. This seems fine to me?
- zzo38computer 1y agoYes, I agree they can choose who they associate with, although my opinion is that it should not restrict others from using it if they obtain a copy indirectly (because I think that copyright and patents should be abolished). (The actual license seems to only restrict the government from using it, though.)
- readthenotes1 1y agoI was talking about that with my grandfather and he recalled that no Ford dealer would sell a car to a Black person in the region he grew up in. They could only buy Pontiacs. There is of course A distinct difference between discrimination based on characteristics you were born with and those you appear to have chosen. But then, you get the slippery slope of sociopath and schizophrenics who have a genetic tendency towards certain behaviors... Who's to say that MAGAs or Nazis aren't born with a genetic tendency towards that behavior?
- Hyperboreanal 1y ago[flagged]
- SAI_Peregrinus 1y agoMountain lions are born with a genetic tendency to want to bite through the back of my neck, killing me. I have no moral obligation to assist them in exercising their genetic tendencies. I'll try to ensure they have safe habitat, with access to their natural non-human food sources, but I won't sacrifice myself for them. Same deal with MAGAs and Nazis. Their genetic tendencies (if any) don't give them a right to harm others. When they do so, they break the social contract that gives others a reason to tolerate their behavior, just like anyone else breaking that social contract.
- Hyperboreanal 1y ago[flagged]
- computerthings 1y ago[dead]
- stretchwithme 1y agoI'd like to know what human rights these organizations have contempt for.
- chris_wot 1y agoThe Republican party seems to have a particular fondness for deporting innocent people to El Salvador without justification.
- yahoozoo 1y agoYou can look up the reason in the ICE database but it only supports clients using SQL Workbench…so…
- stretchwithme 1y agoThere is no human right that allows you to live in any country you want without its consent.
- energywut 1y agoThat's a different claim than the parent made. CECOT, specifically, is absolutely a place where human rights are not observed.
- drivingmenuts 1y agoThey’re trying to end birthright citizenship, which basically would allow them to deport, well anybody who disagreed with them, even if that person’s has no other country be deported to. For example, I am an American citizen, born and raised. I have never lived outside of the United States. My father, now deceased, was from Nicaragua, but he was an American citizen also. However, by ending birthright citizenship, I can can be deported simply for being liberal, if the Supreme Court allows this.
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- hobs 1y ago[flagged]
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- Devasta 1y ago[flagged]
- isaacremuant 1y ago[flagged]
- hobs 1y agoI think dealing with folks whose stated purpose is to murder you isn't really a strawman but you're welcome to think whatever you like.
- isaacremuant 1y ago[flagged]
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- umeshunni 1y agoBut the Taliban is welcome to use it
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- energywut 1y agoIs the Taliban a political party? They are a government, I guess? But a party? I dunno. FWIW, the list of parties here seems predominantly focused on the US and Europe, with one party listed from Russia. I suspect that omissions from this list are not endorsements, but rather uncommon enough on the global stage to not warrant mentioning. The author doesn't go through and mention the Klan either, but like, the Klan isn't really openly active in the US government.
- ian-g 1y agoThe website is part of the SQL Workbench repository. Submit a PR!
- josephcsible 1y agoIndeed. This reminds me of the story about Osama bin Laden's death vs. Margaret Thatcher's death from https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anythin... (discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37406719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37406719 and a few other times).
- ian-g 1y agoIt's his software and his choice, but that's going to be difficult to enforce. With that said, there's a lot of other SQL interfaces out there.
- sea-gold 1y agoOther (cross-platform) options include: - https://dbeaver.io/ https://dbeaver.io/ - https://www.oracle.com/database/sqldeveloper/ https://www.oracle.com/database/sqldeveloper/ - https://www.beekeeperstudio.io/ https://www.beekeeperstudio.io/
- zzo38computer 1y agoThe actual license seems to only prohibit the government from using it.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- arn3n 1y agoI actually love performative licensing. Notable examples are the "Stallman License" [1] and the "Pinkest Pink: Available to Everyone except Anish Kapoor" [2] [1] https://github.com/benlk/misc-licenses/blob/master/stallman-license.md https://github.com/benlk/misc-licenses/blob/master/stallman-... [2] https://stuartsemple.com/anish-kapoor-banned-worlds-pinkest-pink-paint/ https://stuartsemple.com/anish-kapoor-banned-worlds-pinkest-...
- dijksterhuis 1y agohad a look at the other licenses in [1]. this one is great https://github.com/benlk/misc-licenses/blob/master/schrodinger-license.md https://github.com/benlk/misc-licenses/blob/master/schroding... > # Historical note > Because the Schrödinger License r0 was released without the exception added in r2, everything in the light cone of commit https://github.com/benlk/misc-licenses/commit/0bbee5aff743e531e34bc101d133de8a748de874 https://github.com/benlk/misc-licenses/commit/0bbee5aff743e5... is subject to r0 of the Schrödinger License. If you are not sure whether you are covered by r0 of this license: calculate the time distance from 2:15 a.m. EDT July 29 2013 to the current time, multiply that by the speed of light, and draw a sphere with that radius centered on the position of North America at 2:15 a.m. EDT July 29 2013. If you are within that sphere, you are covered by the license. If you were present on Earth at that time, you are covered by the license.
- crises-luff-6b 1y agoGPL & Copyleft are pretty anarchocapitalist as applied to ideas. It's been a few decades since I read it, but Free Software, Free Society is pretty clear about its political intent.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- hoseja 1y agoThere is... another.
- Devasta 1y agoMore licenses should do the same, this is excellent.
- Zak 1y agoI'm not sure putting that notice on the web page has any legal effect. The license itself[0] excludes a list of governments, which is probably a bit more more enforceable. [0] https://www.sql-workbench.eu/manual/license.html https://www.sql-workbench.eu/manual/license.html
- mingus88 1y agoProbably why the wording is “not welcome” as opposed to “not permitted/allowed”
- yahoozoo 1y agolol
- jarrell_mark 1y agoI switched to DBeaver a few years ago after realizing SQL Workbench wasn’t open source
- RandomUser4976 1y agoBrilliant! This a huge move in the right direction. I will do the same.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- neilv 1y agoI'm a little bit sympathetic to the general idea of more restrictive licenses (not on this criteria), but one of the realities is that it's going to exclude more than just the people expressly excluded. Reasons other people might also want to avoid the software include: * Its lifecycle might be encumbered by this license (e.g., not included by some distros, and the general open source user base puts its contributions behind something more inclusive or accessible). * For some purposes, a nonstandard license needs special vetting by lawyers for approval, and this one has what I'd guess are some legal and PR bombs in it. * The author may be a reasonable and principled person, with their heart in the right place, who's exercised their rights in how they license their creations... But are they reacting from some crisis mode of concern about all the wrongs in the world, and could this mode deteriorate into unwelcome surprises from the much more limited perspective of third-party software users? (Will the project become abandoned? Will someone push out undesirable or even trojan software changes? Will the banned parties list be expanded in some way untenable for you?)
- periodjet 1y agoI wonder how HN would react if the listed political parties were all left-wing / progressive ones.
- zzo38computer 1y agoProbably people would complain either way, but my opinion is that neither the left nor right political parties are good, and my opinion is also that the license should not make such restrictions like this whether or not you agree with those political parties. Some other people might believe similar things that I had said.
- Apreche 1y agoHopefully poorly, and rightly so. There is a such thing as right and wrong.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- energywut 1y agoI'm as far left as you can be. I would say exactly the same thing -- people should be free to associate with who they want, and vend stuff to who they want. I've seen this line of argument before, "You wouldn't say this if it was YOUR TEAM" and like, yeah, I would? I have a belief that people should be able to freely associate? Why would it matter if it was left groups or right groups or centrist groups? You have to break out of this "us vs them" notion of politics, it's deeply unhealthy. Parties don't matter, politicians don't matter, policies matter. Be pro/anti- some policy. Who cares what color team has that policy?
- bobsmooth 1y agoAre there any right-wingers writing notable software?
- hagbard_c 1y agoYes, loads of 'm, why do you ask? In contrast to the author of this product they, just like most left-wingers who write software tend to keep their political opinions to themselves. When the author of SQLite - to stay within the SQL domain - presented the Rule of St. Benedict as their 'Code of Conduct' during the Code of Conduct wars of the second decade of the 21st century many a 'good leftie' complained that that was unacceptable - hence the reticence of those who are not in cahoots with those 'good lefties' to voice their opinion on things political. It is the loudmouths like the author of SQL Workbench who draw attention which gives some people - like you - the impression that all software authors must be 'good lefties'. This is not the case, software is produced by people from all over the political spectrum just like bread is baked by all, music is made by all, houses are built by all. [1][ https://www.sqlite.org/codeofethics.html https://www.sqlite.org/codeofethics.html
- jarbus 1y agoa few years ago, i'd have thought this to be excessive, but now i'm sympathetic to this.
- hagbard_c 1y agoSQL was developed by Donald D. Chamberlin and Raymond F. Boyce at IBM. Maybe the author of this piece of software should not want to use a language developed by a company which he no doubt considers to be below his moral standards? It is a good thing that just like this person we all are free to choose which products to use and which to avoid. As an aside I do wonder why so many former west-Germans ended up so far to the left while their former east-German compatriots - who have suffered for close to half a century under a left-wing regime - went the opposite way. I also notice that many 'educated' former west-Germans consider themselves to be morally superior to those AfD-voting former east-Germans which seems quite incongruous given the political left's insistence on using people's 'lived experience' as a guideline on where the truth lies. Does this 'lived experience' not count if it goes against the desired narrative?
- hguyer6 1y ago[dead]
- hagbard_c 1y agoIt would have been more succinct to list the Germans who are allowed to use this product given the current polls: ~25% AfD ~25% CDU/CSU aka "AfD mit Substanz" CSU ??? Werteunion ??? Die Heimat ??? Die Basis ??? Freie Wähler ??? BündnisDeutschland ~4% Bündnis Sahra Wagenknecht This means more than half the German voting population is not welcome. It seems that this software is only to be used by those on the left side of the political spectrum but not everyone on the left - Sahra Wagenknecht (BSW) is certainly on the left but she does not pass the mustard. SPD/Linke (the former eastern German communist party for those who don't know their history - the party which was responsible for ordering people to be shot for the 'crime' of wanting to leave the country) and the Grüne ('Greens', just like water melons they are green only on the outside but deep red on the inside) are welcome as are those remaining few FDP (a liberal party) voters. I don't know the other parties - Werteunion, Heimat, Basis, Freie Wähler and Bündnis Deutschland - but since they don't show up in the polls they're not that interesting in this context.
- energywut 1y ago> It seems that this software is only to be used by those on the left side of the political spectrum Democrats aren't on the left side of the political spectrum, but it appears they can use this software. (Yes, they are called the left in the US, but the mainstream positions of the Democratic party are globally center or center-right.) But also, I would argue that modern leftist parties tend to be less interested in human rights violations and more interested in taking care of everyone (even if that means taking wealth away from the wealthy, which many would consider violative but probably isn't "contempt for human rights")
- subsistence234 1y agoAs far as economic policy goes Democrats are neoliberals (which can be considered right wing). They are far left on cultural topics (e.g. favoring retributive discrimination, wanting frivolous late term abortions to be legal) and far left in their attempted "solutions" to issues like homelessness (rewarding what they try to stop), crime (not enforcing the law if it would make client groups look bad, e.g. making theft under $1k a misdemeanor), education (e.g. abolishing measures of competence). Some of that is performative, some of it is clientelism. But there are a lot of influential Democrat positions are held by sincere (cultural) leftists.
- smitty1e 1y agoPoliticizing software has all the appeal of proprietary licensing. This is just the inevitable fallout of our inability to have nice things. May all find joy in their choices.
- energywut 1y agoOpen Source software is also political, it's just a political position you agree with. (It's a position I also agree with, fwiw.) Let's not pretend that the GPL is free of politics.
- smitty1e 1y agoI see the GPL as treating source code files closer to chess pieces, and insisting they remain in view. What partisan pretensions are on offer with the GPL are unclear. While a FSF member for decades, I take a syncretic view that the GPL is a crucial point on the licensing spectrum, and that economic value is maximized when there are products available across that spectrum for people to choose and use at will. I guess, if we squint, this might be something of a political position, perhaps a libertarian one.
- energywut 1y agoPolitics is not limited to specific parties or governments. Politics is also concerned with the principles of an organization within their sphere, particularly if those principles are about who has access to power. The FSF is very concerned with who has power within the relationship of software author and user -- namely that users should retain the power to redistribute and edit their software. If someone is trying to ensure a community retains power or someone is trying to ensure a community loses access to power, that's politics too.
- josephcsible 1y agoThe GPL isn't free of politics, but it's only political in ways inherently related to intellectual property licensing. SQL Workbench is being political in ways unrelated to what it is.
- mitsu6679 1y ago[dead]
- mattray0295 1y agoI'm 10000% using it now because I am a REPUBLICAN, lol
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 1y agoSoftware developers love to discuss licenses for free software But if these licenses are rarely enforced, then what difference does it make Busybox is best exception that comes to mind; but enforcement seems to have fizzled out anyway For this "SQL Workbench" software, how would license enforcement work 1. How does the author of free software detect that a Republican is using it <-- This is what I am most curious about 2. If the author detects a Republican using the software, then what will he do about it; how much is he willing to spend on lawyers
- hans_castorp 1y agoThat statement is not part of the license as far as I can tell. The author apparently doesn't want his/her software to be used by right-wing fascists. Which seems to be an understandable point of view in times where democratic values and human rights are treated as "communism" or "radical left"
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago"That statement is not part of the license as far as I can tell" What statement The comment asks questions about detecting license violations and enforcing license provisions with respect to free software It uses this "SQL Workbench" software as an example The questions are not specific to SQL Workbench, the SQL Workbence license, or the SQL Workbench author For example, replace "Republicans" with something like "anyone the author dislikes, for whatever reason" If it is "free software", where no registration is required, no telemetry, no surveillance, etc., then 1. How does the author detect violations, i.e., someone the author dislikes is using the software 2. How does the author enforce the license, i.e., stop such persons from using the software
- Hyperboreanal 1y ago[flagged]
- KevinMS 1y ago"If you agree with the despicable politics of the following political parties" That's not limited to belonging to a political party, that seems to indicate agreeing with any of the politics. According to polls, the majority of americans agree with some republican policies, like reducing illegal immigration, and no boys in girl sports. Does that mean most american's cant use this?
- PeterZaitsev 1y agoOne one side creators are welcome to choose whom to offer their software, on the other I wonder how it will stand in regard to "anti discrimination" in various countries. In any case, just please do not call this Open Source :)
- spacemadness 1y agoComment prediction: lots of enlightened centrism.
- amiga386 1y agoStallman wrote about this: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/programs-must-not-limit-freedom-to-run.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/programs-must-not-limit-freed... I'm not saying this person cares about the free software movement, or has any requirement to help it thrive, but if you do, and you license software like this, you're an idiot. It doesn't stop "bad people" (whomever you think that is) using the software, they just disregard the license. It does stop "good people" - people who want to comply with your license - from using your software. Because you're not a lawyer, and your license is so sloppily drafted, so loosely written, that your prohibitions could apply to almost anyone; it would take a lot of effort on their part to be sure. Your software can't be included in distros, because they can't enforce your bespoke conditions. Basically, all decent people should avoid your software for their own good. Honestly, just look at how awful his license is: https://www.sql-workbench.eu/manual/license.html#license-restrictions https://www.sql-workbench.eu/manual/license.html#license-res... - now note that it has not defined what "government" means or "any of its organisations" means or "directly related" means or "download" or "use" means. So let's say I'm a contractor for a third party road crew and I fill in potholes identified by the parish council, am I working for an organisation "directly related" to a "government" on the shitlist? And if I am, I could copy the software easily if given to me on a CD or USB stick (because the surrounding Apache license allows it), but I'm prohibited from "downloading" it. I'm not prohibited from "uploading" it, or having someone "upload" it to me. This guy is just a crank, he's not a lawyer, and he really didn't think this through.