4 ms·

It still has no idea what a Model F keyboard looks like. I tried prompts and editing, and got things that weren't even close.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
yorwba 1y ago
You mean when you edit a picture of a Model F keyboard and tell it to use it in a scene, it still produces a different keyboard?
refulgentis 1y ago
Interesting, would you mind sharing? (imgur allows free image uploads, quick drag and drop) I do have a "works on my machine"* :) -- prompt "Model F keyboard", all settings disabled, on the smaller model, seems to have substantially more than no idea: https://imgur.com/a/32pV6Sp https://imgur.com/a/32pV6Sp (Google Images comparison included to show in-the-wild "Model F keyboard", which may differ from my/your expected distribution) * my machine, being, https://playground.bfl.ai/ https://playground.bfl.ai/ (I have no affiliation with BFL)
- jsheard 1y ago
  Your generated examples just look like generic modern-day mechanical keyboards, they don't have any of the Model Fs defining features.
- AStonesThrow 1y ago
  Your Google Images search indicates the original problem of models training on junk misinformation online. If AI scrapers are downloading every photo that's associated with "Model F Keyboard" like that, the models have no idea what is an IBM Model F, or its distinguishing characteristics, and what is some other company's, and what is misidentified. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:IBM_Model_F_Keyboard https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:IBM_Model_F_Keyb... Specifying "IBM Model F keyboard" and placing it in quotation marks improves the search. But the front page of the search is tip-of-the-iceberg compared to whatever the model's scrapers ingested. Eventually you may hit trademark protections. Reproducing a brand-name keyboard may be as difficult as simulating a celebrity's likeness. I'm not even sure what my friends look like on Facebook, so it's not clear how an AI model would reproduce a brand-name keyboard design on request.
  - refulgentis 1y ago
    I agree with you vehemently. Another way of looking at it is, insistence on complete verisimilitude in an image generator is fundamentally in error. I would argue, even undesirable. I don't want to live in a world where a 45 year old keyboard that was only out for 4 years is readily imitated in every microscopic detail. I also find myself frustrated, and asking myself why. First thought that jumps in: it's very clear that it is in error to say the model has no idea, modulo there's some independent run that's dramatically different from the only one offered in this thread. Second thought: if we're doing "the image generators don't get details right", it would seem to be there a lot simpler examples than OPs, and it is better expressed that way - I assume it wasn't expressed that way because it sounds like dull conversation, but it doesn't have to be! Third thought as to why I feel frustrated: I feel like I wasted time here - no other demos showing it's anywhere close to "no idea", its completely unclear to me whats distinctive about a IBM Model F Keyboard, and the the wikipedia images are worse than Google's AFAICT.
    - fc417fc802 1y ago
      > if we're doing "the image generators don't get details right", it would seem to be there a lot simpler examples than OPs There are different sorts of details though, and the distinctions are both useful and interesting to understanding the state of the art. If "man drinking coke" produces someone with 6 fingers holding a glass of water that's completely different from producing someone with 5 fingers holding a can of pepsi. Notice that none of the images in your example got the function key placement correct. Clearly the model knows what a relatively modern keyboard is, and it even has some concept of a vaguely retro looking mechanical keyboard. However indeed I'm inclined to agree with OP that it has approximately zero idea what an "IBM model F" keyboard is. I'm not sure that's a failure of the model though - as you point out, it's an ancient and fairly obscure product.
  - fc417fc802 1y ago
    > Eventually you may hit trademark protections. Reproducing a brand-name keyboard may be as difficult as simulating a celebrity's likeness. Then the law is broken. Monetizing someone's likeness is an issue. Utilizing trademarked characteristics to promote your own product without permission is an issue. It's the downstream actions of the user that are the issue, not the ML model itself. Models regurgitating copyrighted material verbatim is of course an entirely separate issue.
stephen37 1y ago
I got it working when I provided an image of a Model F keyboard. This is the strength of the model, provide it an input image and it will do some magic Disclaimer: I work for BFL

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

yorwba 1y ago

You mean when you edit a picture of a Model F keyboard and tell it to use it in a scene, it still produces a different keyboard?

refulgentis 1y ago

Interesting, would you mind sharing? (imgur allows free image uploads, quick drag and drop) I do have a "works on my machine"* :) -- prompt "Model F keyboard", all settings disabled, on the smaller model, seems to have substantially more than no idea: https://imgur.com/a/32pV6Sp https://imgur.com/a/32pV6Sp (Google Images comparison included to show in-the-wild "Model F keyboard", which may differ from my/your expected distribution) * my machine, being, https://playground.bfl.ai/ https://playground.bfl.ai/ (I have no affiliation with BFL)

jsheard 1y ago
Your generated examples just look like generic modern-day mechanical keyboards, they don't have any of the Model Fs defining features.
AStonesThrow 1y ago
Your Google Images search indicates the original problem of models training on junk misinformation online. If AI scrapers are downloading every photo that's associated with "Model F Keyboard" like that, the models have no idea what is an IBM Model F, or its distinguishing characteristics, and what is some other company's, and what is misidentified. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:IBM_Model_F_Keyboard https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:IBM_Model_F_Keyb... Specifying "IBM Model F keyboard" and placing it in quotation marks improves the search. But the front page of the search is tip-of-the-iceberg compared to whatever the model's scrapers ingested. Eventually you may hit trademark protections. Reproducing a brand-name keyboard may be as difficult as simulating a celebrity's likeness. I'm not even sure what my friends look like on Facebook, so it's not clear how an AI model would reproduce a brand-name keyboard design on request.
- refulgentis 1y ago
  I agree with you vehemently. Another way of looking at it is, insistence on complete verisimilitude in an image generator is fundamentally in error. I would argue, even undesirable. I don't want to live in a world where a 45 year old keyboard that was only out for 4 years is readily imitated in every microscopic detail. I also find myself frustrated, and asking myself why. First thought that jumps in: it's very clear that it is in error to say the model has no idea, modulo there's some independent run that's dramatically different from the only one offered in this thread. Second thought: if we're doing "the image generators don't get details right", it would seem to be there a lot simpler examples than OPs, and it is better expressed that way - I assume it wasn't expressed that way because it sounds like dull conversation, but it doesn't have to be! Third thought as to why I feel frustrated: I feel like I wasted time here - no other demos showing it's anywhere close to "no idea", its completely unclear to me whats distinctive about a IBM Model F Keyboard, and the the wikipedia images are worse than Google's AFAICT.
  - fc417fc802 1y ago
    > if we're doing "the image generators don't get details right", it would seem to be there a lot simpler examples than OPs There are different sorts of details though, and the distinctions are both useful and interesting to understanding the state of the art. If "man drinking coke" produces someone with 6 fingers holding a glass of water that's completely different from producing someone with 5 fingers holding a can of pepsi. Notice that none of the images in your example got the function key placement correct. Clearly the model knows what a relatively modern keyboard is, and it even has some concept of a vaguely retro looking mechanical keyboard. However indeed I'm inclined to agree with OP that it has approximately zero idea what an "IBM model F" keyboard is. I'm not sure that's a failure of the model though - as you point out, it's an ancient and fairly obscure product.
- fc417fc802 1y ago
  > Eventually you may hit trademark protections. Reproducing a brand-name keyboard may be as difficult as simulating a celebrity's likeness. Then the law is broken. Monetizing someone's likeness is an issue. Utilizing trademarked characteristics to promote your own product without permission is an issue. It's the downstream actions of the user that are the issue, not the ML model itself. Models regurgitating copyrighted material verbatim is of course an entirely separate issue.

stephen37 1y ago

I got it working when I provided an image of a Model F keyboard. This is the strength of the model, provide it an input image and it will do some magic Disclaimer: I work for BFL