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Oh man, couldn’t disagree with this more strongly. SpaceX make an effort to be pretty transparent about what they’re trying to achieve and what constitutes fail

Oh man, couldn’t disagree with this more strongly. SpaceX make an effort to be pretty transparent about what they’re trying to achieve and what constitutes failure. FSD is vapourware; SpaceX has been successfully launching and landing - now catching - rocket first stages for years. This is quality stuff.

kristofferR 1y ago
FSD ain't vaporware, the beta program is very public, and it's getting progressively better at a rapid pace. The release estimates and Elon's statements about it were BS for sure, but it's a very real thing.
- TheAlchemist 1y ago
  I will bite - Tesla has been selling, for the past 10 years, cars that were supposedly becoming Fully Self Driving 'before the end of the year' for the past 10 years straight. Let's say somebody bought it 5 years ago, then sold his car last year. From his perspective - was it vaporwave or not ? Some day, it will work of course. There are other companies operating robotaxi on scale for quite a long time already. It's just not that day yet, not for Tesla at least.
  - kristofferR 1y ago
    Sure, but I'm talking about the tech, not the buyers who got screwed. Saying that FSD is vaporware because it is not available for a lot of Tesla owners is like saying that Waymo is vaporware because it is only launched in certain cities.
    - anonzzzies 1y ago
      Perspective right, the definition: > software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, for me, if I would've bought a Tesla, it would be vapourware for sure: Elon advertised it every chance he got and gets (this summer we will have it!), people bought it because of that and it's not there: that's vapourware.
    - Dylan16807 1y ago
      The feature currently called "full self driving" is just a preview and prototype. The real thing, the broken promise, is level 4 or 5 and it's not available to anyone. They're not even at level 3.
- darkteflon 1y ago
  I see what you mean, but I guess it depends on your definition of vapourware. I don’t think whether it’s publicly available is determinative. That fact that it’s called “full self-driving”, combined with the claims made about (let alone the money taken for it), and the length of time taken, render it vapourware for me. Duke Nukem Forever was the platonic vapourware, until it released as a complete product, at which point it ceased being vapourware. I don’t think anyone believes that FSD is the finished article, and those last few percent are critical where human lives are at risk. But I can see that reasonable minds may differ. It’s not a precise term.

kristofferR 1y ago

FSD ain't vaporware, the beta program is very public, and it's getting progressively better at a rapid pace. The release estimates and Elon's statements about it were BS for sure, but it's a very real thing.

TheAlchemist 1y ago
I will bite - Tesla has been selling, for the past 10 years, cars that were supposedly becoming Fully Self Driving 'before the end of the year' for the past 10 years straight. Let's say somebody bought it 5 years ago, then sold his car last year. From his perspective - was it vaporwave or not ? Some day, it will work of course. There are other companies operating robotaxi on scale for quite a long time already. It's just not that day yet, not for Tesla at least.
- kristofferR 1y ago
  Sure, but I'm talking about the tech, not the buyers who got screwed. Saying that FSD is vaporware because it is not available for a lot of Tesla owners is like saying that Waymo is vaporware because it is only launched in certain cities.
  - anonzzzies 1y ago
    Perspective right, the definition: > software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, for me, if I would've bought a Tesla, it would be vapourware for sure: Elon advertised it every chance he got and gets (this summer we will have it!), people bought it because of that and it's not there: that's vapourware.
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    The feature currently called "full self driving" is just a preview and prototype. The real thing, the broken promise, is level 4 or 5 and it's not available to anyone. They're not even at level 3.
darkteflon 1y ago
I see what you mean, but I guess it depends on your definition of vapourware. I don’t think whether it’s publicly available is determinative. That fact that it’s called “full self-driving”, combined with the claims made about (let alone the money taken for it), and the length of time taken, render it vapourware for me. Duke Nukem Forever was the platonic vapourware, until it released as a complete product, at which point it ceased being vapourware. I don’t think anyone believes that FSD is the finished article, and those last few percent are critical where human lives are at risk. But I can see that reasonable minds may differ. It’s not a precise term.