4 ms·

That's true, I would never ever consider moving to the US for that reason alone. Our vacations are very generous and I always struggle to use them all up. I get

That's true, I would never ever consider moving to the US for that reason alone. Our vacations are very generous and I always struggle to use them all up. I get about a month and a half effectively (if I take them all consecutively with weekends in between)

djtango 1y ago
When I worked at bigco the US employees were remunerated a lot better but they only got 10 days off a year and were pressured to not take off more than 5...
- wkat4242 1y ago
  Yeah I don't really care about money as long as I have enough to live. Work life balance is much more important. Also, in countries with high wages, expenses like rent are also much higher. Except for goods that are roughly the same everywhere. I live in a low wage country in Europe but I don't have nor need a car (I hate driving). That helps a lot as it's a huge money sink for fuel, parking, maintenance and insurance. I have unlimited public transport for 20€ per month. But yeah we have US employees too
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    That sounds great. In which country is that?
    - wkat4242 1y ago
      Spain. Oh and healthcare is also free here.
      - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        I know the Spanish healthcare is free(I'm from Europe) but isn't the jobs market in Spain also not that great? Except maybe in Barcelona or Madrid where CoL is as much as northern Europe but at lower wages? At least that's what I heard from the Spanish expats who left.
        wkat4242 1y ago
        It's ok, although a lot of international corporations are clamping down now due to the trump tariffs crap and uncertainty surrounding that. The one I work for pulled all job offers, and Meta closed down their entire moderation center in Barcelona. Also because they suddenly think moderation is 'woke', ignoring that it is required in Europe. Cost of living in Barcelona is nowhere near that of say Amsterdam. But I don't live in Spain for the money. I live here for quality of life.
        FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        thanks. Which city do you recommend?
        wkat4242 1y ago
        Out of those two, Barcelona. The climate is milder and there's the sea. There's other big coastal cities like Valencia but they lack the international employers.
jdkee 1y ago
[flagged]
- disgruntledphd2 1y ago
  They're definitely not. The welfare state takes about 8-10% of GDP while US defence rarely goes above 3% of GDP. Even the 5pp suggested for NATO members is much, much cheaper than the welfare state. Your lack of vacations are provided by your rich refusing to pay taxes.
- samus 1y ago
  In exchange, the US gets the opportunity to set up military bases or to use their allies's military bases. And once you're there, you're staying and it becomes impossible to evict you*. And your allies have to deal with the consequences of the stupid wars you started. Mass immigration fuelling the rise of right-wing ideology in Europa is ultimately due to ongoing US meddling in the Middle East. Where is the free ride??? * Best example: Guantanamo Bay, which Cuba wants back and for which only a single rent check was (accidentally) deposited since the revolution.
- wkat4242 1y ago
  That's just the usual Trump narrative. Like others have said, welfare costs a lot more than defense. Though we do really need a bigger nuclear umbrella against Putin. That's the only thing that really matters against Russia. And we have no other credible defense threats. But the US was always opposed to the EU having its own for proliferation reasons. Now that they suddenly back out we're in a bit of a bind because I doubt France and the UK's deterrence is enough of a threat to Russia to prevent incisions. And yes the US purchased a lot of goodwill and power by offering its defense. There would have been a lot more opposition to Iraq and Afghanistan (both of which accomplished nothing for the people there I might add, and the invasion of Iraq even caused ISIS)
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    PS: I just want to add, it's the distribution of wealth that makes the difference. Europe has very few billionaires unlike America. We don't believe in 'the market' above everything. Hence we distribute wealth more. This is also why we have much less violent crime, the difference between rich and poor is not as big. It doesn't have that much to do with defense spending. And why should someone be able to be a billionaire? With say 10 billion someone could spend a million a day to live, and still make their money last 27 years. Here in Spain most people don't make a million in total wages during their entire life. You vote for the system in the US, things don't have to be that way. But the ultra rich make it seem like everyone could be rich if they only just work hard. Obviously that's false. Most rich people don't work very hard and definitely not 100.000 times as hard as people making 100.000 times less than they do.
jandrewrogers 1y ago
A key distinction is that there is no statutory vacation in the US. If there was, it would be set by the States, as that is their authority. Despite that, I’ve had 4-5 weeks of vacation at every job for 15+ years in the US. Companies use it to differentiate themselves.
- AngryData 1y ago
  To be fair, if you are working in a tech field you are already a massive outlier compared to the average person in both pay and benefits. 2-3 weeks is very commonly the standard for other professional fields.
  - jandrewrogers 1y ago
    Maybe, but I’ve had partners in wildly different and non-fashionable industries that had similar vacation time. My friends on an hourly wage don’t get as much but oddly they have way more freedom to take unpaid leave. Their employers would rather let them run off at random for a month than lose them, since they would be immediately employable somewhere else when they came back. This partly reflects the persistently low unemployment rate in the US for vaguely competent people that want a job.
- account42 1y ago
  5 weeks would be considered insultingly low for a tech job here.
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    France?

djtango 1y ago

When I worked at bigco the US employees were remunerated a lot better but they only got 10 days off a year and were pressured to not take off more than 5...

wkat4242 1y ago
Yeah I don't really care about money as long as I have enough to live. Work life balance is much more important. Also, in countries with high wages, expenses like rent are also much higher. Except for goods that are roughly the same everywhere. I live in a low wage country in Europe but I don't have nor need a car (I hate driving). That helps a lot as it's a huge money sink for fuel, parking, maintenance and insurance. I have unlimited public transport for 20€ per month. But yeah we have US employees too
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  That sounds great. In which country is that?
  - wkat4242 1y ago
    Spain. Oh and healthcare is also free here.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      I know the Spanish healthcare is free(I'm from Europe) but isn't the jobs market in Spain also not that great? Except maybe in Barcelona or Madrid where CoL is as much as northern Europe but at lower wages? At least that's what I heard from the Spanish expats who left.
      - wkat4242 1y ago
        It's ok, although a lot of international corporations are clamping down now due to the trump tariffs crap and uncertainty surrounding that. The one I work for pulled all job offers, and Meta closed down their entire moderation center in Barcelona. Also because they suddenly think moderation is 'woke', ignoring that it is required in Europe. Cost of living in Barcelona is nowhere near that of say Amsterdam. But I don't live in Spain for the money. I live here for quality of life.
        FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        thanks. Which city do you recommend?
        wkat4242 1y ago
        Out of those two, Barcelona. The climate is milder and there's the sea. There's other big coastal cities like Valencia but they lack the international employers.

jdkee 1y ago

[flagged]

disgruntledphd2 1y ago
They're definitely not. The welfare state takes about 8-10% of GDP while US defence rarely goes above 3% of GDP. Even the 5pp suggested for NATO members is much, much cheaper than the welfare state. Your lack of vacations are provided by your rich refusing to pay taxes.
samus 1y ago
In exchange, the US gets the opportunity to set up military bases or to use their allies's military bases. And once you're there, you're staying and it becomes impossible to evict you*. And your allies have to deal with the consequences of the stupid wars you started. Mass immigration fuelling the rise of right-wing ideology in Europa is ultimately due to ongoing US meddling in the Middle East. Where is the free ride??? * Best example: Guantanamo Bay, which Cuba wants back and for which only a single rent check was (accidentally) deposited since the revolution.
wkat4242 1y ago
That's just the usual Trump narrative. Like others have said, welfare costs a lot more than defense. Though we do really need a bigger nuclear umbrella against Putin. That's the only thing that really matters against Russia. And we have no other credible defense threats. But the US was always opposed to the EU having its own for proliferation reasons. Now that they suddenly back out we're in a bit of a bind because I doubt France and the UK's deterrence is enough of a threat to Russia to prevent incisions. And yes the US purchased a lot of goodwill and power by offering its defense. There would have been a lot more opposition to Iraq and Afghanistan (both of which accomplished nothing for the people there I might add, and the invasion of Iraq even caused ISIS)
- wkat4242 1y ago
  PS: I just want to add, it's the distribution of wealth that makes the difference. Europe has very few billionaires unlike America. We don't believe in 'the market' above everything. Hence we distribute wealth more. This is also why we have much less violent crime, the difference between rich and poor is not as big. It doesn't have that much to do with defense spending. And why should someone be able to be a billionaire? With say 10 billion someone could spend a million a day to live, and still make their money last 27 years. Here in Spain most people don't make a million in total wages during their entire life. You vote for the system in the US, things don't have to be that way. But the ultra rich make it seem like everyone could be rich if they only just work hard. Obviously that's false. Most rich people don't work very hard and definitely not 100.000 times as hard as people making 100.000 times less than they do.

jandrewrogers 1y ago

A key distinction is that there is no statutory vacation in the US. If there was, it would be set by the States, as that is their authority. Despite that, I’ve had 4-5 weeks of vacation at every job for 15+ years in the US. Companies use it to differentiate themselves.

AngryData 1y ago
To be fair, if you are working in a tech field you are already a massive outlier compared to the average person in both pay and benefits. 2-3 weeks is very commonly the standard for other professional fields.
- jandrewrogers 1y ago
  Maybe, but I’ve had partners in wildly different and non-fashionable industries that had similar vacation time. My friends on an hourly wage don’t get as much but oddly they have way more freedom to take unpaid leave. Their employers would rather let them run off at random for a month than lose them, since they would be immediately employable somewhere else when they came back. This partly reflects the persistently low unemployment rate in the US for vaguely competent people that want a job.
account42 1y ago
5 weeks would be considered insultingly low for a tech job here.
- wkat4242 1y ago
  France?