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Eh. Even if 1 in 10000000 of the kids that do "science fairs" end up in "science research" with at least one "scientific innovation", and the rest of them make

Eh. Even if 1 in 10000000 of the kids that do "science fairs" end up in "science research" with at least one "scientific innovation", and the rest of them make $$$ in industry, that's them working. This comment is asinine on too many levels to fully rebut.

carlmr 1y ago
Agreed, I don't believe the science fair will push research, but we need to lay the groundwork to build a society of researchers instead one of office drones, going through JIRA tickets. The comment above yours is a really poor strawmanning attempt.
timr 1y ago
> This comment is asinine on too many levels to fully rebut. Thanks. I mean, it's not like I have direct experience with this stuff or anything, as one of those 9,999,999 who spent years of my life doing science, only to end up in industry. Also, it's not like we would do better by skipping the years of science and going directly to the productive part, or that those (now grown up) "kids" are encouraged to continue circling the airstrip of life by the funding programs that are happy to pay postdoc salaries -- postdocs being the best kind of cheap, indentured labor -- to keep the dream alive just a little bit longer. After all, walking away from a PhD/postdoc(s) is only just a bit harder than chewing off your own leg to escape a bear trap. It's clearly much better to waste the time of our smartest people by injecting false economic incentives into the system in an effort to socially engineer some kind of scientific command economy. Let's grind those rocks, and turn the cheap gravel into concrete to build glorious future!
- tomabuct 1y ago
  Resentment is inherently anecdotal, but nevertheless a data point. The issue with your argument is that you’re conflating two different points on the academic pipeline by shitting on high school science fairs because of the post-doc hellscape further down the line. The latter is a special case of low wage, dead-end jobs that are inherent to capitalism, which can more generally leave anyone paralyzed in a vicious grind loop. Improving this may require capitalistic reform such as UBI and increased housing supply, but is the human condition of the quest for satisfaction in one’s niche. The former is exposure to future possibilities that could satisfy the constraints of economic and intellectual well-being, likely through incremental progress but with the potential for breakthrough in either realm.

carlmr 1y ago

Agreed, I don't believe the science fair will push research, but we need to lay the groundwork to build a society of researchers instead one of office drones, going through JIRA tickets. The comment above yours is a really poor strawmanning attempt.

timr 1y ago

> This comment is asinine on too many levels to fully rebut. Thanks. I mean, it's not like I have direct experience with this stuff or anything, as one of those 9,999,999 who spent years of my life doing science, only to end up in industry. Also, it's not like we would do better by skipping the years of science and going directly to the productive part, or that those (now grown up) "kids" are encouraged to continue circling the airstrip of life by the funding programs that are happy to pay postdoc salaries -- postdocs being the best kind of cheap, indentured labor -- to keep the dream alive just a little bit longer. After all, walking away from a PhD/postdoc(s) is only just a bit harder than chewing off your own leg to escape a bear trap. It's clearly much better to waste the time of our smartest people by injecting false economic incentives into the system in an effort to socially engineer some kind of scientific command economy. Let's grind those rocks, and turn the cheap gravel into concrete to build glorious future!

tomabuct 1y ago
Resentment is inherently anecdotal, but nevertheless a data point. The issue with your argument is that you’re conflating two different points on the academic pipeline by shitting on high school science fairs because of the post-doc hellscape further down the line. The latter is a special case of low wage, dead-end jobs that are inherent to capitalism, which can more generally leave anyone paralyzed in a vicious grind loop. Improving this may require capitalistic reform such as UBI and increased housing supply, but is the human condition of the quest for satisfaction in one’s niche. The former is exposure to future possibilities that could satisfy the constraints of economic and intellectual well-being, likely through incremental progress but with the potential for breakthrough in either realm.