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> The Civil War was basically southerners strongly preferring to use slaves instead of modernizing. I thought that was all northern propaganda. The real reason

> The Civil War was basically southerners strongly preferring to use slaves instead of modernizing. I thought that was all northern propaganda. The real reason being that the south refused to be in a confederation where there was more and more power given to the presidency and the senate while the states had fewer. The north of course couldn't say they fought to force these states to remain in the confederation, negating their right to self determination, and instead pushed the slave narrative which was really secondary.

defrost 1y ago
Sounds like you have a wikipedia article to heavily edit to bring into line with your thinking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_American_Civil_... For the several decades I've been alive and reading multiple takes on history slavery has always featured as one of the major three causes of the US Civil War for the majority of historians of note.
sky2224 1y ago
The Civil War was 100% about the Confederacy's desire to preserve slavery. The "State's Rights" argument is revisionist to downplay things, especially given the fact that southern states would be hypocritical and demand that the northern states enforce laws like the Fugitive Slave act, which directly went against the rights of the states that had declared themselves as free states.
- hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
  The States Rights argument also falls apart the moment you dig 1 level deeper. Which Right were these states worried about when Lincoln was elected? It was the right to keep Slaves. So to the extent it was about “states rights” it was about the “states rights to keep slaves” ie about slavery.
  - Jensson 1y ago
    But then they removed a lot of states rights in general afterwards, not just the right to keep slaves. And today we have the result of that, and it isn't pretty, wouldn't you be happier if states had more rights today?
    - sky2224 1y ago
      What were some of those rights exactly?
    - const_cast 1y ago
      As long as we're being bad faith, would you be happier if we had slaves? I don't know man, things seem pretty fucking fantastic today all things considered.
jccalhoun 1y ago
If the slave issue was secondary is seems weird that so many of the states explicitly mentioned it: >"Following the election of Abraham Lincoln in November 1860, the seven states that would constitute the future Confederate States of America before Fort Sumter was bombarded began the process of seceding from the Union. Those states were South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. All of them formed "conventions of the people" to adopt ordinances severing the tie with the Union. (2) Five of them--South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Georgia, and Texas--commissioned delegates to their respective conventions to draft public documents detailing the reasons behind the secession. (3) Historians call these documents "declarations of causes," a phrase used in the titles of several of these documents. Although, for reasons unknown, Florida never officially completed its declaration, a draft of it exists in the Florida state archives. All of the declarations are explicit: maintaining slavery was the reason for secession. For example, the Mississippi declaration begins, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery--the greatest material interest of the world." https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+cause+of+the+civil+war+according+to+confederate+leaders.-a0472268541 https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+cause+of+the+civil+war+ac...
- orwin 1y ago
  And even if you didn't have a huge archive to support the claim that slavery was the primary reason for the secession and had to guess, i would buy the economics explanation over the political one almost each time.
- aucisson_masque 1y ago
  That's interesting. I had watched Ken Burns' "The Civil War" documentary and came to this conclusion, it seemed balanced and thorough but I guess I would need more digging.
thrance 1y ago
You're talking about "Lost Cause Theory" [1], a negationist re-narrativization of the Civil War. Any serious Historian will tell you the Civil War was 100% about slavery if you ask them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy

defrost 1y ago

Sounds like you have a wikipedia article to heavily edit to bring into line with your thinking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_American_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_American_Civil_... For the several decades I've been alive and reading multiple takes on history slavery has always featured as one of the major three causes of the US Civil War for the majority of historians of note.

sky2224 1y ago

The Civil War was 100% about the Confederacy's desire to preserve slavery. The "State's Rights" argument is revisionist to downplay things, especially given the fact that southern states would be hypocritical and demand that the northern states enforce laws like the Fugitive Slave act, which directly went against the rights of the states that had declared themselves as free states.

hshdhdhj4444 1y ago
The States Rights argument also falls apart the moment you dig 1 level deeper. Which Right were these states worried about when Lincoln was elected? It was the right to keep Slaves. So to the extent it was about “states rights” it was about the “states rights to keep slaves” ie about slavery.
- Jensson 1y ago
  But then they removed a lot of states rights in general afterwards, not just the right to keep slaves. And today we have the result of that, and it isn't pretty, wouldn't you be happier if states had more rights today?
  - sky2224 1y ago
    What were some of those rights exactly?
  - const_cast 1y ago
    As long as we're being bad faith, would you be happier if we had slaves? I don't know man, things seem pretty fucking fantastic today all things considered.

jccalhoun 1y ago

If the slave issue was secondary is seems weird that so many of the states explicitly mentioned it: >"Following the election of Abraham Lincoln in November 1860, the seven states that would constitute the future Confederate States of America before Fort Sumter was bombarded began the process of seceding from the Union. Those states were South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. All of them formed "conventions of the people" to adopt ordinances severing the tie with the Union. (2) Five of them--South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Georgia, and Texas--commissioned delegates to their respective conventions to draft public documents detailing the reasons behind the secession. (3) Historians call these documents "declarations of causes," a phrase used in the titles of several of these documents. Although, for reasons unknown, Florida never officially completed its declaration, a draft of it exists in the Florida state archives. All of the declarations are explicit: maintaining slavery was the reason for secession. For example, the Mississippi declaration begins, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery--the greatest material interest of the world." https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+cause+of+the+civil+war+according+to+confederate+leaders.-a0472268541 https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+cause+of+the+civil+war+ac...

orwin 1y ago
And even if you didn't have a huge archive to support the claim that slavery was the primary reason for the secession and had to guess, i would buy the economics explanation over the political one almost each time.
aucisson_masque 1y ago
That's interesting. I had watched Ken Burns' "The Civil War" documentary and came to this conclusion, it seemed balanced and thorough but I guess I would need more digging.

thrance 1y ago

You're talking about "Lost Cause Theory" [1], a negationist re-narrativization of the Civil War. Any serious Historian will tell you the Civil War was 100% about slavery if you ask them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy