8 ms·

They (the current administration) doesn't want to be competitive. They want to be in full control and willing to destroy any institution, organization or person

They (the current administration) doesn't want to be competitive. They want to be in full control and willing to destroy any institution, organization or person that opposes them, internal or external.

spacemadness 1y ago
Can we say "fascism" out loud yet or are moderates still pretending everything is fine?
- esseph 1y ago
  [flagged]
- trealira 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - kristopolous 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - rawgabbit 1y ago
    Trump won because those in control of the Democratic Party underestimated the anger and economic desperation of the working class. They can’t afford rent or groceries. Medical and dental care are a distant dream. If the Democrats only messaging is DEI, inclusivity and girl/woman power… they view the Democrats as out of touch. It is the equivalent of Let Them Eat Cake or brioche. And I do believe in DEI, inclusivity and women’s rights. But if the working class are struggling, it is tragically comic not to address their primary concerns first.
    - watwut 1y ago
      Trump won, because he and project 2025 represent what conservative Christians want and because republican party want it. And people forever blaming anyone else are just enablers. This has nothing to do with what democrats do or signal. That is utterly irrelevant. Republicans are the ones bringing up gender, trans issues etc into discussion again and again. Not democrats. > They can’t afford rent or groceries. Medical and dental care are a distant dream. No, because vote for Trump and republicans is vote for higher prices, more expensive healthcare and tax cuts for rich. Every single time. This is not about how economy is doing in reality. It is not about what democrats signal. Republicans will lie, fox news will like and media will both side it. > And I do believe in DEI, inclusivity and women’s rights. But if the working class are struggling, it is tragically comic not to address their primary concerns first. Women are working class and struggling. And working class economical concerns are not addressed by republicans at all ... and democrats were not running on dei.
      - nulld3v 1y ago
        > Trump won, because he and project 2025 represent what conservative Christians want and because republican party want it. And people forever blaming anyone else are just enablers. This has nothing to do with what democrats do or signal. That is utterly irrelevant That explains why people voted for Trump. That doesn't explain why people didn't vote for Harris. > This is not about how economy is doing in reality. It is not about what democrats signal. 1. Republican voters either want to destroy the working class, or are detached from reality and believe the lies from Fox News. 2. Maybe it's not about what the Democrats signal. But let's pause for a second: what did the Democrats signal? What was the big message that the Harris campaign really wanted people to know? > And working class economical concerns are not addressed by republicans at all ... What do you mean? Trump said grocery prices would drop on day 1! He said he would end the Ukraine war on day 1! And the war in Gaza too! He said he would bring jobs back to America! The Republicans absolutely addressed the economic concerns of the working class. Of course, it was all a lie, but it doesn't matter if your voters just believe anything you say.
        watwut 1y ago
        > That explains why people voted for Trump. That doesn't explain why people didn't vote for Harris. Harris does not provide what project 2025 calls for. She would not own the libs either. > what did the Democrats signal? What was the big message that the Harris campaign really wanted people to know? They run on "we will govern responsibly" and "we can make economy good". They were not talking about DEI, women in general nor about minorities as OP suggests. > The Republicans absolutely addressed the economic concerns of the working class. And all those concerns stopped mattering the day after - both to the voters and to the party too. Previous republicans governments, including Trumps one did not made economy great, did not made healthcare cheaper, none of that. These are pretend concerns. Something republican votes can pretend they care about when democrats are in power. Something that does not matter when republicans are in power. Something they will call "bad" during democrat governments regardless of how things really are and something they never blame republican government for. You can add debt to it too. Deficit matters only when democrats are in power. It does not matter when republicans are in power. It is and never was about any of that. It is primary about identity and secondary about cultural war. Economy and everything else is far far behind these. --------------- Pretending this is about economy, pretending that trying to make these voters life better would get you vote is how democrats are loosing. Even when they succeed, those voters punish them, because it was never ever about that.
    - mandmandam 1y ago
      > those in control of the Democratic Party underestimated the anger and economic desperation of the working class. They don't care. Why would they? The worse Republicans act, the more Democrat leaders are happy to present themselves as the only 'sane' alternative. That 'sanity' now includes arming genocide, campaigning with Dick Cheney, removing being 'anti-torture' from their platforms, etc. Very little media holds them to account on any of this. The people who fund (read: own) the Democrats and the media are a higher priority to politicians than their actual voter base. That has been made abundantly clear to anyone paying attention: just look at Gaza, healthcare, environmental protection, fracking, or any number of issues where the majority of Americans want progress while <5% of Dem politicians actually fight for them. Again, Gaza made this wildly clear: Even though 77% of Dem voters wanted an arms embargo, and >30% of 2020 Biden voters in swing states were loudly saying that arming genocide was probably a red line as far as getting their vote, Harris decided that bombing children was more important than winning the election. And the rest of the party leadership supported this, again, against the will of the vast majority of their voters.
      - watwut 1y ago
        I do not see Republicans slowing down what is going on in Gaza ... instead it is becoming more violent and unrestricted. Like common ... if democrats said anything against israel politics, they would be called anti-semitic, would be hit by easy campaign and would lose more votes. There are actual big differences in terms of how those two parties behaves. Saying anything else is just lie. Supposed economic desperation vote rejected economy that was doing good. They do not want better cheaper healthcare nor functioning economy. They want republican program, they just hoped it will be only other people who will be harmed.
      - root_axis 1y ago
        Between Trump and Harris, Trump was obviously a much worse choice for Gaza. Anyone equivocating the distinction between them doesn't care about Gaza at all and is functioning entirely within the realm of performative activism.
        nulld3v 1y ago
    - mcphage 1y ago
      > If the Democrats only messaging is DEI, inclusivity and girl/woman power If you didn't pay any attention to the last campaign, just say so. It was not the Democrats who spent a billion dollars running a campaign on identity politics. This attempted retconning something that millions of people were forced to sit through is embarrassing, and you should absolutely feel bad.
      - femiagbabiaka 1y ago
        The Democrats refusing to admit the economy was terrible for working people was enough. Of course it will be worse now.
        mcphage 1y ago
        > The Democrats refusing to admit the economy was terrible for working people was enough. That's a fine topic for a real conversation, but it was 100% not what the person I replied to was talking about. > Of course it will be worse now. Yes. So the Democrat's message of "The economy is improving" is a bad lie even though it was true, and "I'll make the economy the best ever" is a good lie even though it's false?
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        bluefirebrand 1y ago
        > "The economy is improving" is a bad lie even though it was true It doesn't matter if it is true, when it isn't really benefitting your average person in any meaningful way > "I'll make the economy the best ever" is a good lie even though it's false? You have to understand that the lie Trump is telling isn't "I'll make the economy better", it is "I am going to make it so you, a person, has more money and can afford things you want to buy" Average People don't care about "the economy" they care about their bank accounts and their ability to buy and own things they want to buy Trump makes empty promises that he will make people's actual lives better in ways that matter to them The Democrats make empty promises that they will make "society" better, whatever that means.
    - mrbigbob 1y ago
      I agree, it was very annoying hearing how great the economy was doing when inflation and just the general cost of living rose significantly starting with covid and when anyone tried to have a talk about that a lot of people would just parrot how great the economy was doing and everyone they knew was doing fine. thats great for you but that doesnt mean what your experiencing is what a lot of other people are.
- platevoltage 1y ago
  Luckily Jon Stewart finally came to his senses.
- eli_gottlieb 1y ago
  I tolerate my normie family saying it, but it grates on me because of how many of the constituencies have switched sides by now. For instance, educated professionals were a major base for the original Nazi Party, while nowadays the fascists seem to really loathe that class stratum.
  - computerthings 1y ago
    [dead]
  - mrbigbob 1y ago
    "For instance, educated professionals were a major base for the original Nazi Party." Thats not entirely true. While there were definitely many people in education who supported the nazi party there were still quite a few in the education field during the beginning of Hitlers power who were not and many fled to other countries starting around 1933. https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/Online/5299/The-scientific-exodus-from-Nazi-Germany https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/Online/5299/The-scientific.... it was why albert einstein spent a great deal of time in the US. Through laws they shaped and molded the education to be inline with nazi ideology and only those who towed the line were allowed to continue to teach/study. heres a small article from the US Congress (shocked its still up) that discusses higher education in germany during nazi occupation. https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116973/documents/HHRG-118-ED00-20240417-SD002.pdf https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116973/documents/... Basically if you disagreed with the nazi party you were fired/expelled in the beginning and later sent to camps. the entire point of studying history is so we dont repeat it and just looking at the amount of US universities bending to the republican parties ideals on what they believe is scarily similar to early nazi germany. I dont get how people dont understand that the strength of the US for the longest time has been our diversity; especially in education. hell, after world war 2 we actively recurited many nazi scientist to help us with the space program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip many would argue it is the reason why we beat the soviet union to the moon. the harm that is slowly being done to this country will take decades to repair if it can be and i dont believe that is being hyperbolic
  - victorbjorklund 1y ago
- nec4b 1y ago
  Do you know the story of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?
  - spacemadness 1y ago
    Do you know how condescending and useless that statement is?
    - nec4b 1y ago
      It is only useless on mindless elitist mind. Why would it be condescending to remind people actions have consequences?
      - spacemadness 1y ago
        Yeah ok. It seems you have nothing to add except some lame nonsensical jabs at “elitists.”
        nec4b 1y ago
        You are free to expand on why you think it's condescending, since you brought it up.
      - const_cast 1y ago
        > Why would it be condescending to remind people actions have consequences? I think yes, explicitly. I think every person on planet Earth is aware actions have consequences. That's never been a debate. The debate is always what consequences have come from what actions, and to what extent.
  - trealira 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - anonfordays 1y ago
      [flagged]
- anonfordays 1y ago
  The other side four years ago: Can we say "Marxism" out loud yet or are moderates still pretending everything is fine?
  - mptest 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - anonfordays 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - const_cast 1y ago
    Marxism is when ultra-capitalist slightly right leaning politicians make boring policies to further enrich the American capitalist class. Oh and also some token "woke" stuff that doesn't really help anyone but I guess doesn't make anything worse either. There's not a single Marxist in American politics at any level of power that matters. We have two neo-liberal parties that are both right leaning. One is ultra-right and one is ever so slightly right leaning.
    - SR2Z 1y ago
      AOC and Sanders wanted a JOB GUARANTEE as part of the GND. The "one-time wealth tax" is confiscation and redistribution. That's sure as hell not capitalism. In what world is a party advocating for universal healthcare, free college, and expanded immigration "slightly right?"
      - const_cast 1y ago
        > In what world is a party advocating for universal healthcare, free college, and expanded immigration "slightly right?" 1. Most of that party is not advocating for that, those are actually fairly fringe beliefs. 2. Our fellow capitalistic allies in the west have all of that. 3. The closest things the dems tried to universal healthcare was the ACA, and despite being obvious legislation, was fought tooth and nail. You had droves of people legitimately arguing that insurers SHOULD be able to drop you for pre-existing conditions. That's how unbelievably fucking propagandized our population is. We're advocating against ourselves every day.
schnitzelstoat 1y ago
It's like he read Why Nations Fail as a guidebook.

spacemadness 1y ago

Can we say "fascism" out loud yet or are moderates still pretending everything is fine?

esseph 1y ago
[flagged]
trealira 1y ago
[flagged]
- kristopolous 1y ago
  [flagged]
- rawgabbit 1y ago
  Trump won because those in control of the Democratic Party underestimated the anger and economic desperation of the working class. They can’t afford rent or groceries. Medical and dental care are a distant dream. If the Democrats only messaging is DEI, inclusivity and girl/woman power… they view the Democrats as out of touch. It is the equivalent of Let Them Eat Cake or brioche. And I do believe in DEI, inclusivity and women’s rights. But if the working class are struggling, it is tragically comic not to address their primary concerns first.
  - watwut 1y ago
    Trump won, because he and project 2025 represent what conservative Christians want and because republican party want it. And people forever blaming anyone else are just enablers. This has nothing to do with what democrats do or signal. That is utterly irrelevant. Republicans are the ones bringing up gender, trans issues etc into discussion again and again. Not democrats. > They can’t afford rent or groceries. Medical and dental care are a distant dream. No, because vote for Trump and republicans is vote for higher prices, more expensive healthcare and tax cuts for rich. Every single time. This is not about how economy is doing in reality. It is not about what democrats signal. Republicans will lie, fox news will like and media will both side it. > And I do believe in DEI, inclusivity and women’s rights. But if the working class are struggling, it is tragically comic not to address their primary concerns first. Women are working class and struggling. And working class economical concerns are not addressed by republicans at all ... and democrats were not running on dei.
    - nulld3v 1y ago
      > Trump won, because he and project 2025 represent what conservative Christians want and because republican party want it. And people forever blaming anyone else are just enablers. This has nothing to do with what democrats do or signal. That is utterly irrelevant That explains why people voted for Trump. That doesn't explain why people didn't vote for Harris. > This is not about how economy is doing in reality. It is not about what democrats signal. 1. Republican voters either want to destroy the working class, or are detached from reality and believe the lies from Fox News. 2. Maybe it's not about what the Democrats signal. But let's pause for a second: what did the Democrats signal? What was the big message that the Harris campaign really wanted people to know? > And working class economical concerns are not addressed by republicans at all ... What do you mean? Trump said grocery prices would drop on day 1! He said he would end the Ukraine war on day 1! And the war in Gaza too! He said he would bring jobs back to America! The Republicans absolutely addressed the economic concerns of the working class. Of course, it was all a lie, but it doesn't matter if your voters just believe anything you say.
      - watwut 1y ago
        > That explains why people voted for Trump. That doesn't explain why people didn't vote for Harris. Harris does not provide what project 2025 calls for. She would not own the libs either. > what did the Democrats signal? What was the big message that the Harris campaign really wanted people to know? They run on "we will govern responsibly" and "we can make economy good". They were not talking about DEI, women in general nor about minorities as OP suggests. > The Republicans absolutely addressed the economic concerns of the working class. And all those concerns stopped mattering the day after - both to the voters and to the party too. Previous republicans governments, including Trumps one did not made economy great, did not made healthcare cheaper, none of that. These are pretend concerns. Something republican votes can pretend they care about when democrats are in power. Something that does not matter when republicans are in power. Something they will call "bad" during democrat governments regardless of how things really are and something they never blame republican government for. You can add debt to it too. Deficit matters only when democrats are in power. It does not matter when republicans are in power. It is and never was about any of that. It is primary about identity and secondary about cultural war. Economy and everything else is far far behind these. --------------- Pretending this is about economy, pretending that trying to make these voters life better would get you vote is how democrats are loosing. Even when they succeed, those voters punish them, because it was never ever about that.
  - mandmandam 1y ago
    > those in control of the Democratic Party underestimated the anger and economic desperation of the working class. They don't care. Why would they? The worse Republicans act, the more Democrat leaders are happy to present themselves as the only 'sane' alternative. That 'sanity' now includes arming genocide, campaigning with Dick Cheney, removing being 'anti-torture' from their platforms, etc. Very little media holds them to account on any of this. The people who fund (read: own) the Democrats and the media are a higher priority to politicians than their actual voter base. That has been made abundantly clear to anyone paying attention: just look at Gaza, healthcare, environmental protection, fracking, or any number of issues where the majority of Americans want progress while <5% of Dem politicians actually fight for them. Again, Gaza made this wildly clear: Even though 77% of Dem voters wanted an arms embargo, and >30% of 2020 Biden voters in swing states were loudly saying that arming genocide was probably a red line as far as getting their vote, Harris decided that bombing children was more important than winning the election. And the rest of the party leadership supported this, again, against the will of the vast majority of their voters.
    - watwut 1y ago
      I do not see Republicans slowing down what is going on in Gaza ... instead it is becoming more violent and unrestricted. Like common ... if democrats said anything against israel politics, they would be called anti-semitic, would be hit by easy campaign and would lose more votes. There are actual big differences in terms of how those two parties behaves. Saying anything else is just lie. Supposed economic desperation vote rejected economy that was doing good. They do not want better cheaper healthcare nor functioning economy. They want republican program, they just hoped it will be only other people who will be harmed.
    - root_axis 1y ago
      Between Trump and Harris, Trump was obviously a much worse choice for Gaza. Anyone equivocating the distinction between them doesn't care about Gaza at all and is functioning entirely within the realm of performative activism.
      - nulld3v 1y ago
  - mcphage 1y ago
    > If the Democrats only messaging is DEI, inclusivity and girl/woman power If you didn't pay any attention to the last campaign, just say so. It was not the Democrats who spent a billion dollars running a campaign on identity politics. This attempted retconning something that millions of people were forced to sit through is embarrassing, and you should absolutely feel bad.
    - femiagbabiaka 1y ago
      The Democrats refusing to admit the economy was terrible for working people was enough. Of course it will be worse now.
      - mcphage 1y ago
        > The Democrats refusing to admit the economy was terrible for working people was enough. That's a fine topic for a real conversation, but it was 100% not what the person I replied to was talking about. > Of course it will be worse now. Yes. So the Democrat's message of "The economy is improving" is a bad lie even though it was true, and "I'll make the economy the best ever" is a good lie even though it's false?
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        bluefirebrand 1y ago
        > "The economy is improving" is a bad lie even though it was true It doesn't matter if it is true, when it isn't really benefitting your average person in any meaningful way > "I'll make the economy the best ever" is a good lie even though it's false? You have to understand that the lie Trump is telling isn't "I'll make the economy better", it is "I am going to make it so you, a person, has more money and can afford things you want to buy" Average People don't care about "the economy" they care about their bank accounts and their ability to buy and own things they want to buy Trump makes empty promises that he will make people's actual lives better in ways that matter to them The Democrats make empty promises that they will make "society" better, whatever that means.
  - mrbigbob 1y ago
    I agree, it was very annoying hearing how great the economy was doing when inflation and just the general cost of living rose significantly starting with covid and when anyone tried to have a talk about that a lot of people would just parrot how great the economy was doing and everyone they knew was doing fine. thats great for you but that doesnt mean what your experiencing is what a lot of other people are.
platevoltage 1y ago
Luckily Jon Stewart finally came to his senses.
eli_gottlieb 1y ago
I tolerate my normie family saying it, but it grates on me because of how many of the constituencies have switched sides by now. For instance, educated professionals were a major base for the original Nazi Party, while nowadays the fascists seem to really loathe that class stratum.
- computerthings 1y ago
  [dead]
- mrbigbob 1y ago
  "For instance, educated professionals were a major base for the original Nazi Party." Thats not entirely true. While there were definitely many people in education who supported the nazi party there were still quite a few in the education field during the beginning of Hitlers power who were not and many fled to other countries starting around 1933. https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/Online/5299/The-scientific-exodus-from-Nazi-Germany https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/Online/5299/The-scientific.... it was why albert einstein spent a great deal of time in the US. Through laws they shaped and molded the education to be inline with nazi ideology and only those who towed the line were allowed to continue to teach/study. heres a small article from the US Congress (shocked its still up) that discusses higher education in germany during nazi occupation. https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116973/documents/HHRG-118-ED00-20240417-SD002.pdf https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116973/documents/... Basically if you disagreed with the nazi party you were fired/expelled in the beginning and later sent to camps. the entire point of studying history is so we dont repeat it and just looking at the amount of US universities bending to the republican parties ideals on what they believe is scarily similar to early nazi germany. I dont get how people dont understand that the strength of the US for the longest time has been our diversity; especially in education. hell, after world war 2 we actively recurited many nazi scientist to help us with the space program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip many would argue it is the reason why we beat the soviet union to the moon. the harm that is slowly being done to this country will take decades to repair if it can be and i dont believe that is being hyperbolic
- victorbjorklund 1y ago
nec4b 1y ago
Do you know the story of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?
- spacemadness 1y ago
  Do you know how condescending and useless that statement is?
  - nec4b 1y ago
    It is only useless on mindless elitist mind. Why would it be condescending to remind people actions have consequences?
    - spacemadness 1y ago
      Yeah ok. It seems you have nothing to add except some lame nonsensical jabs at “elitists.”
      - nec4b 1y ago
        You are free to expand on why you think it's condescending, since you brought it up.
    - const_cast 1y ago
      > Why would it be condescending to remind people actions have consequences? I think yes, explicitly. I think every person on planet Earth is aware actions have consequences. That's never been a debate. The debate is always what consequences have come from what actions, and to what extent.
- trealira 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - anonfordays 1y ago
    [flagged]
anonfordays 1y ago
The other side four years ago: Can we say "Marxism" out loud yet or are moderates still pretending everything is fine?
- mptest 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - anonfordays 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- const_cast 1y ago
  Marxism is when ultra-capitalist slightly right leaning politicians make boring policies to further enrich the American capitalist class. Oh and also some token "woke" stuff that doesn't really help anyone but I guess doesn't make anything worse either. There's not a single Marxist in American politics at any level of power that matters. We have two neo-liberal parties that are both right leaning. One is ultra-right and one is ever so slightly right leaning.
  - SR2Z 1y ago
    AOC and Sanders wanted a JOB GUARANTEE as part of the GND. The "one-time wealth tax" is confiscation and redistribution. That's sure as hell not capitalism. In what world is a party advocating for universal healthcare, free college, and expanded immigration "slightly right?"
    - const_cast 1y ago
      > In what world is a party advocating for universal healthcare, free college, and expanded immigration "slightly right?" 1. Most of that party is not advocating for that, those are actually fairly fringe beliefs. 2. Our fellow capitalistic allies in the west have all of that. 3. The closest things the dems tried to universal healthcare was the ACA, and despite being obvious legislation, was fought tooth and nail. You had droves of people legitimately arguing that insurers SHOULD be able to drop you for pre-existing conditions. That's how unbelievably fucking propagandized our population is. We're advocating against ourselves every day.

schnitzelstoat 1y ago

It's like he read Why Nations Fail as a guidebook.