3 ms·

I don't have that attitude and I'm sorry if you encountered it (it's true the Lisp community could be friendlier, warmer to newcomers). However, what can a I (o

by mcxx 18y ago

I don't have that attitude and I'm sorry if you encountered it (it's true the Lisp community could be friendlier, warmer to newcomers). However, what can a I (or any other Lisp programmer for that matter) do about the steep learning cure you mention? You have to try for yourself to learn the language, noone's going to do it for you.

Retric 18y ago
what can a I Create a simple working installer for the major OS's that includes a useful IDE, Database connectivity to least one major database and a fully functional web server. Once this is working get some people to write a standard library for date / time functions, file IO, formatting output etc. Never underestimate how difficult it is for a new user to setup a working environment.
- mcxx 18y ago
  The closest thing at the moment would probably be Lispbox (http://gigamonkeys.com/book/lispbox/ http://gigamonkeys.com/book/lispbox/) altough it's a bit outdated, so you'd be better with directly downloading SBCL (http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html). Use cl-build (http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/ http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/) for to ease library download. and install. I guess it's too complicated for a newcomer, but there's no easier way atm, sorry.
  - Retric 18y ago
    That's my point, you could fix this.
    - mcxx 18y ago
      I get that. I'll definitely consider it. It's on my list of open-source side projects.
      - ramchip 18y ago
        Lispbox is a good idea. Target Windows if you can. Setting up Clojure with Emacs on Windows involved a lot of steps and arcane stuff, but now there's a Clojure Box which makes things a lot more pleasant. I've tried SBCL with the Eclipse plugin and it's been a huge PITA. IIRC, I couldn't get libraries to install when I finally gave up. It may have improved since, but I'm not sure. Of course the fact that many cool-sounding CL libraries had defunct websites and inaccessible CVS repos didn't exactly encourage me...
- jimbokun 18y ago
  For OS X, Ready Lisp is the closest I have seen to what you describe. http://www.newartisans.com/blog/ready-lisp.html http://www.newartisans.com/blog/ready-lisp.html It's Aquamacs combined with SBCL, some documentation, and some should-be-standard CL libraries. Double click and it immediately takes you into a REPL. Aquamacs recognizes most of the usual Mac key bindings, making the Emacs curve not quite so steep.
- narag 18y ago
  "Create a simple working installer for the major OS's that includes a useful IDE, Database connectivity to least one major database and a fully functional web server..." I'm just learning and my conclusion (by elimination :-)) is that for Windows the best is to use Emacs + SLIME + SBCL. There is an installation guide here: http://robert.zubek.net/blog/2008/04/09/sbcl-emacs-windows-vista/ http://robert.zubek.net/blog/2008/04/09/sbcl-emacs-windows-v... In the comments there are instructions to get ASDF working, that I haven't tried yet. I've tried to avoid Emacs, but it seems impossible. Lisp in a Box has a lot of problems, ABLE has still too many bugs and Corman lacks GUI programming without which I can't justify the price. CUSP also has too many bugs. So I'm surrendering and looking at Emacs. For the web server part, just use good old CGIs.

by mcxx 18y ago

Retric 18y ago

what can a I Create a simple working installer for the major OS's that includes a useful IDE, Database connectivity to least one major database and a fully functional web server. Once this is working get some people to write a standard library for date / time functions, file IO, formatting output etc. Never underestimate how difficult it is for a new user to setup a working environment.

mcxx 18y ago
The closest thing at the moment would probably be Lispbox (http://gigamonkeys.com/book/lispbox/ http://gigamonkeys.com/book/lispbox/) altough it's a bit outdated, so you'd be better with directly downloading SBCL (http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html). Use cl-build (http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/ http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/) for to ease library download. and install. I guess it's too complicated for a newcomer, but there's no easier way atm, sorry.
- Retric 18y ago
  That's my point, you could fix this.
  - mcxx 18y ago
    I get that. I'll definitely consider it. It's on my list of open-source side projects.
    - ramchip 18y ago
      Lispbox is a good idea. Target Windows if you can. Setting up Clojure with Emacs on Windows involved a lot of steps and arcane stuff, but now there's a Clojure Box which makes things a lot more pleasant. I've tried SBCL with the Eclipse plugin and it's been a huge PITA. IIRC, I couldn't get libraries to install when I finally gave up. It may have improved since, but I'm not sure. Of course the fact that many cool-sounding CL libraries had defunct websites and inaccessible CVS repos didn't exactly encourage me...
jimbokun 18y ago
For OS X, Ready Lisp is the closest I have seen to what you describe. http://www.newartisans.com/blog/ready-lisp.html http://www.newartisans.com/blog/ready-lisp.html It's Aquamacs combined with SBCL, some documentation, and some should-be-standard CL libraries. Double click and it immediately takes you into a REPL. Aquamacs recognizes most of the usual Mac key bindings, making the Emacs curve not quite so steep.
narag 18y ago
"Create a simple working installer for the major OS's that includes a useful IDE, Database connectivity to least one major database and a fully functional web server..." I'm just learning and my conclusion (by elimination :-)) is that for Windows the best is to use Emacs + SLIME + SBCL. There is an installation guide here: http://robert.zubek.net/blog/2008/04/09/sbcl-emacs-windows-vista/ http://robert.zubek.net/blog/2008/04/09/sbcl-emacs-windows-v... In the comments there are instructions to get ASDF working, that I haven't tried yet. I've tried to avoid Emacs, but it seems impossible. Lisp in a Box has a lot of problems, ABLE has still too many bugs and Corman lacks GUI programming without which I can't justify the price. CUSP also has too many bugs. So I'm surrendering and looking at Emacs. For the web server part, just use good old CGIs.